Jazz for aficionados

Now, back to the Jazz discussion at hand;
why did Marsalis slam Miles and Pat? Over what subject matter?

***** why did Marsalis slam Miles and Pat? Over what subject matter?****


What is, and what is not, Jazz.   Said Pat and Miles were not playing Jazz.  Did allow that Miles USED to play Jazz.  Whew, thank God for that, seeing as how I have a billion CDs by Miles.

Cheers

rok - not trying to be a provocateur but why should anyone care what Wynton says about who is playing "Jazz"?  Granted he is a talented jazz musician...an accomplished, celebrated artist.  But is he "keeper of the flame" as it were?  I'd be real interested knowing what criteria he's using to arrive at those judgements...which is just another way of asking, has he got a "definition" of jazz?  I am NOT trying to bust your chops on this...thinking it's a discussion worth having is all, touching as it does on some of the recent music suggestions appearing on this thread.  

***** not trying to be a provocateur *****

Don't worry.   This thread is lousy with those.


*****  But is he "keeper of the flame" as it were?  *****

Yes.  For all practical purposes, he is.

*****  I'd be real interested knowing what criteria he's using to arrive at those judgements...which is just another way of asking, has he got a "definition" of jazz?  *****

The criteria is drawn from his background.  He Comes from a very distinguished and established musical family, in the birth place of jazz, New Orleans.   Knows the history of the music, from it's roots and beginnings.  Is a virtuoso on his instrument. Holds the most important position in the world of Jazz today,  leader at JALC.   Is the media's go to guy  for all things Jazz.   Very articulate.   Very personable. Educated. Can talk about, explain, and teach the young about the music.

As far as slamming Miles:  Coming out of New Orleans, with his pedigree, he was not / is not, intimidated by Miles  or anyone else.

He is so important, we have to think in terms of who will be his successor.
We don't think that way about any other player.

Knows how to dress.  Looks, talks and acts like a Jazz player.

He is Da man!!

Cheers

Jafant asks:

****Over what subject matter?****

Jazz; or, more specifically, the idea that the music that Metheny and (late) Miles played was not jazz.

****Why?****

Its actually quite simple.  In the case of Miles, because it was Miles who first criticized the young Wynton, who was being touted as the next big thing, because (and to quote Miles) "he ain't saying shit".  It is only human nature that there would be some resentment there on the part of Wynton.  Obviously, I can't get inside Wynton's head, but I do agree with the assessment of many in the jazz community that Wynton's rep as an important jazz PLAYER was seriously overstated.  This has been commented on many times here and certainly elsewhere.  Wynton is a force of nature as virtuoso trumpet player, champion of jazz and its roots, jazz educator, and more; all of that is undeniable and he deserves tremendous credit.  However, in my opinion and that of many, Miles was right; he just doesn't have "the thing".  His jazz is impressive for what he can do with a trumpet, not for his ability to tell a story when he improvises.  He has built an empire around the "preservation" of traditional jazz.  I believe he is totally sincere; but, as with the rare well meaning politician, the lines get blurred and it's only natural to fall into the trap of condemning what does not fit his formula.  

****Coming from Wynton, it cannot be ignored.****

Of course it can be.  It usually isn't ignored; however, not being ignored doesn't necessarily mean being correct.