I have two sons; one grown and the other almost. The number of times that I say to myself: "sometimes dealing with my kids and their childish and petulant behavior is like dealing with some on this thread" surprises even me. Why? Because in both cases sometimes the behavior is an attempt at getting attention and wanting to appear more grown up than they really are. Deep inside kids know who has the real answer; but, darn it!, they will argue, scream and holler in order to, if only for a moment, feel grown up (knowledgable).
The real question is: why is Rok bringing up the subject of fusion and modern jazz at this point; and bashing it again at that? It’s not like there’s fusion being posted regularly. The fact that some like it and some don’t has been made crystal clear. Answer: comfort zone; the comfort zone of negativity towards what he doesn’t like or understand in an effort to get attention and build up what he does like. The insistence on continuing to call it "noise" when he KNOWS it is liked by individuals who have amply shown to be thoughtful music lovers will be seen as nothing more than provocation and stirring the pot; especially because a simple "I don’t like it", would suffice handily. Or, alternatively and much better yet, in order to make truly meaningful and substantive commentary he could offer something besides "it’s noise", "not a natural evolution", "it was done for the money", etc; comments which are essentially meaningless. Of course, a simple desire to keep the peace, at least for more than a day, would also suffice; but, like the finer points of music, that’s not part of the repertoire.
Rok, I could quote you and say "Wrong again!" I won’t, I’ll be a little less tactless. I believe you’re wrong; it IS all a natural evolution. You said it yourself; "product of the environment". You like music with simple structures, easily recognizable "tunes", and harmonic and rhythmic structures that are easy to take in and don’t challenge our sensibilities, however sophisticated they may be in other ways; all a reflection of the time of their creation, of your sensibilities and comfort zone. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Fast forward a few decades to music that is more complicated reflecting a more complicated time, and in some cases "free". Why does it bother you so much that some don’t agree with your definitions? And, please, don’t go to the "it degrades the art" nonsense. I have no issue with you not liking what I like, but please do yourself a favor and don’t ridicule yourself by calling what some of us like "noise". I believe you do know better than that, but like my thirteen year old........"look at me, look at me!". Why are you still "searching for the truth"?; seems to me that you have found it already......the truth for you. Others on this thread have found their truth; why can’t you leave their truth alone? Now, if you would like to discuss this stuff in the only way the has some objectivity (so that it is applicable to all) (Newbee) let’s see what you got; haven’t seen much yet. Miles didn’t go in the direction he did "for the money"; he had plenty already. The real shame is that in spite of how much you like certain music you still don’t really understand the creative spirit.
All this was way too personal I admit and counter to your suggestion that things be kept less personal. All I can say is "practice what you preach".
On a fourteen hour plane ride (long posts; aren’t you excited?) to uncertain internet connectivity so nobody go reading into a possible delay in response time.
Acman3, nice quote, I need to borrow that myself sometime 😉 Love Eddie Harris, thanks.
Where’s my damn peanuts?!
The real question is: why is Rok bringing up the subject of fusion and modern jazz at this point; and bashing it again at that? It’s not like there’s fusion being posted regularly. The fact that some like it and some don’t has been made crystal clear. Answer: comfort zone; the comfort zone of negativity towards what he doesn’t like or understand in an effort to get attention and build up what he does like. The insistence on continuing to call it "noise" when he KNOWS it is liked by individuals who have amply shown to be thoughtful music lovers will be seen as nothing more than provocation and stirring the pot; especially because a simple "I don’t like it", would suffice handily. Or, alternatively and much better yet, in order to make truly meaningful and substantive commentary he could offer something besides "it’s noise", "not a natural evolution", "it was done for the money", etc; comments which are essentially meaningless. Of course, a simple desire to keep the peace, at least for more than a day, would also suffice; but, like the finer points of music, that’s not part of the repertoire.
Rok, I could quote you and say "Wrong again!" I won’t, I’ll be a little less tactless. I believe you’re wrong; it IS all a natural evolution. You said it yourself; "product of the environment". You like music with simple structures, easily recognizable "tunes", and harmonic and rhythmic structures that are easy to take in and don’t challenge our sensibilities, however sophisticated they may be in other ways; all a reflection of the time of their creation, of your sensibilities and comfort zone. NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Fast forward a few decades to music that is more complicated reflecting a more complicated time, and in some cases "free". Why does it bother you so much that some don’t agree with your definitions? And, please, don’t go to the "it degrades the art" nonsense. I have no issue with you not liking what I like, but please do yourself a favor and don’t ridicule yourself by calling what some of us like "noise". I believe you do know better than that, but like my thirteen year old........"look at me, look at me!". Why are you still "searching for the truth"?; seems to me that you have found it already......the truth for you. Others on this thread have found their truth; why can’t you leave their truth alone? Now, if you would like to discuss this stuff in the only way the has some objectivity (so that it is applicable to all) (Newbee) let’s see what you got; haven’t seen much yet. Miles didn’t go in the direction he did "for the money"; he had plenty already. The real shame is that in spite of how much you like certain music you still don’t really understand the creative spirit.
All this was way too personal I admit and counter to your suggestion that things be kept less personal. All I can say is "practice what you preach".
On a fourteen hour plane ride (long posts; aren’t you excited?) to uncertain internet connectivity so nobody go reading into a possible delay in response time.
Acman3, nice quote, I need to borrow that myself sometime 😉 Love Eddie Harris, thanks.
Where’s my damn peanuts?!