Vintage Dual 1228 Turntable : worth to upgrade cartridge ?

 Norman,
Thanks for your input.I gave my 1229 away for parts as it was my fathers table and the auto jammed and he broke the arm and bearings forcing it to move.I have 2  1219's, 3 1019's,  4 P+E 2040's,2 for parts only.I run a Fulton kinetic barrier mat from the 70's which out performs others I have tried.
  What do you think of 1219's?I am thinking of sending my other good P+E in for a go over,just needs some minor work,I bought it over 20 years ago,then a beautiful restored one came up 2 years ago close here and I snapped it up.
 I like your idea of the 1229 Dual mods and doing the same with one of my P+E's.I was shocked when I pulled my P+E out after sitting for close 20 years thinking it was a mediocre table.
 You gave me food for thought and will look into modding one of my P+E's,one of which I think has a bad arm.The build quality is incredible.
 I will have to be on the lookout now for but yet another 1229 when up for sale.I have 2 Technic's,I forget just saw a Dual 1226 I have and a Rotel on the econo rack,crazy,oh and my Rega.

Playpen,

The Dual 1219 is the same table as the 1229.  It just doesnt have the strobe feature, which of course is not necessary.  To realize the performance of any 40+ year old turntable really requires patients and a total tear down and rebuild.  The 1219 is an excellent platform for doing simple mods.  Like your PE, it's a wonderful idler drive table.  I was surprised when I realized that the platter on my 1229 was heavier than the one on my Garrard 301.  When I shut off my Dual, the platter will spin on its own for a good two or three minutes.  That is excellent engineering.
  
Im sure you can find a service manual for the 2040.  Do a tear down and rebuild of one of them.  Replace the arm.  I personally love the older Grace and SME's tonearms.  They can be found quite reasonble on the used market in 9" sizes that will allow them to fit on the existing turntable deck and plinth.  The SME 3009 is especially elegant and sounds wonderul.  

You think the PE is good now?  Give it tune up, it'll blow your socks off.


Norman

normansizemore,
I noted with interest your remark that :

"When I shut off my Dual, the platter will spin on its own for a good two or three minutes. That is excellent engineering."

That prompted me to clock my own Dual 1228 platter , it recorded 1 minute 55 seconds ( 1.55 minute) before platter came to halt . What does it indicate in terms of health of bearing , lube , cleaning and engineering in general ? How good or how ordinary ? With this 1.55 minute, do I need to open the thrust bearing and clean , lube it ? Any ideas you guys can throw ? 
Can I upgrade on platter on my Dual ? Any options ? 

Lastly : guys , this thread is turning out really interesting for vintage TT owners giving lots of info on how to bring their vintage TT to perform many steps up the ladder of excellence . Very valuable contributions from all FMs here . 

 

Radni,

The platter on my 1229 weighs over twice as much as the one on the 1228. (7.5lbs 1229, 3llbs 1228) Therefore the flywheel effect is greater and that's why is spins longer. 

As as long as the bearing set on the 1228 is well oiled or greased, and the platter race is well oiled you're good. 

N

Even in restored condition the 1228 is simply not a great table.  Current demand is driven more by nostalgia than performance.  All classic Dual TT are well built, and durable.  But they are incapable of top flight performance.  They are not a Garrard, Rek-o-Kut or even a Lenco, nor where they designed to be so.

If your 1228 is in excellent condition, and has been serviced (as you state) then it is worth $200+.  Sell it and add the proceeds to your budget.

$1200-$1400 will buy you a used TT, new cartridge and new phono stage that will be an order of magnitude better than the 1228.   Rega, SOTA, AR, Thorens Tables are all within your budget.  Shure M97 cartridge with JICO stylus, Mid level AT or Goldring or Ortrofon with a new iFi phono stage and you will have a few dollars left for records !

I have significant experience with Dual TT.  I owned a 1229q Empire 2000 EEE combo for 12yrs.  I upgraded to a 721, which was an improvement, then to a Thorens TD318 which was a revelation and a significant upgrade from the 721.  I haven't looked back.   I currently use a AR ES1/ Shure M97he in my computer system, and a Linn LP12 ITTOKK LVII  AT33 MLOCC with Lundahl SUT in my main system; and both wipe the floor with a Dual.