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SET 45 Amp Driving Dynamic Speakers

I have an Antique Sound Labs Tulip SET amp running Emission Labs mesh plate 45s, driving Audio Note AN E speakers. It will play WAY louder than I want to listen, and the dynamics are amazing with all types of music.

Why do I keep reading that 45s (and other low power triodes) are only appropriate for horns, or other super efficient speakers? I think a real disservice has been done to the audiophile community by the propagation of this idea. IMO, anyone who prefers to listen to music at sane levels can enjoy the many benefits of a low power SET amp with carefully chosen dynamic speakers.

Anyone else feel this way/have similar experience?
tommylion
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,393 posts
 
Charles,

Well, based on my understanding from Atmasphere and others, that’s how SETs work. It has nothing to do with semantics.

So that piano you hear is either a result of the amp working optimally and having very low distortion or if it is being stressed at all (not hard to imagine) the introduction of some pleasant sounding second order harmonic distortion.

Also the thing is its impossible for all recordings to sound like any single live piano listening session because each recording is produced differently. Also each live listening session changes based on listening location, close or far for example from the piano.

So if all piano recordings are sounding more like that piano, there is at least a decent chance that is a result of the sound of the system playing the recording, not the recording itself.

In the end it doesn’t matter. All gear does its thing a particular way and different people will take to different sounds for whatever reasons they choose. Its all good in the end.

Another test might be to listen to electronic synthesized piano or other synthesized keyboards that are not necessarily as rich in harmonics as a string instrument like a piano in particular. If I get those extra harmonics that don’t belong there not to mention clipping (even soft clipping) to-boot, that’s a very bad thing for me because the music will sound notning like the real thing done well live. How many electronic music lovers levitate to SETs as opposed to those into mostly Jazz or Classical?

Maybe with a pair of good Class D powered subs though. Then you can probably have the best of both worlds, Class D for the best bass and SET for  mids and high frequencies.
larryi
4,090 posts
 

Mapman,

I don't know how easy the Triangle speaker is to drive, but, I do like how it sounds.  It is a nice and lively speaker that has a somewhat "bright" top end that is not harsh or hard or sibilant--a VERY hard trick to pull off and something I find quite appealing.  Maybe not a 45 SET, but certainly there are other candidates that would easily match with the Titus. 

Also, I am not one that is completely wedded to SET amps; I own both SET and pushpull amps and like both types.  If I had to pick a single favorite amp, it probably would be a custom-built OTL that a friend owns that makes almost everything else sound dead in a direct comparison.  I heard it in a direct comparison with an Audio Note Kageki (the SET ajmp I own) and the OTL trounced the SET in the short-term audition of the two.  If I owned a Titus, I would at least be tempted to try an OTL, even though the Titus really doesn't need something extra to bring it to life.

Charles,

I agree with you that digital sources can sound terrific.  If I had to choose digital or analogue, it would be digital because there is MUCH more available digitally than on vinyl or tape.  Most of my listening is from CDs (ripped to a server).  However, while it is not an issue of the inherent capabilities of the medium, there are lots of digital reissues of analogue-sourced music that is quite poor and it is striking how much better an early issue on vinyl sounds compared to the digital reissue.  This might have to do with deterioration of the original tape, but, most often it is indifference in the mastering (evidenced by very good digital reissues of the same music by specialty houses like Mobile Fidelity).  Most jazz digital reissues are quite good, and some classical digital reissues are actually better than the analogue originals (e.g., 1970-80's DG recordings that were poorly mastered for vinyl), but, there is a LOT of reissued pop and rock that is terrible sounding in the digital format.  That is why I have both formats even though most of my listening is from digital sources.

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,393 posts
 
larryi, your assessment of the Titus is spot on!

Technically on paper, I think I would prefer OTL over SET in that the use of a transformer when needed can only hurt and not help most likely.

Problem with OTL for me is all those tubes and the limited choice of speakers for best results.

Also WAF and size though not so much cost.

I decided to try newer amplification technology ie Class D before diving into tube amps and have been quite happy there for a number of years , but of course curiosity still always kills the cat. Thing is though I (and many others including the pro reviewers) have found Class D amps to top performers in most regards already, the technology is not yet fully mature and will only get better. My ref1000m amps are several years old already. The newer ref600m models are said to be even better and knowing the technology that would not surprise me. That Class D still has upside coming down the road as swtiching frequencies and bandwidth continue to improve is another reason I hesitate to make too big an investment in tube amps.
gsm18439
895 posts
 
Al

Thanks!

Gary
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hello Mapman,
My comments about realistic piano sound was in response to your mentioning 2nd order harmonics vs "accurate reproduction. The SET sounds more like a live piano than other amplifiers I’ve used in my system. I believe it is due to the ability to capture and preserve the nuances and subtle musical cues that are so important. The resonance of the soundboard and vibration of the strings etc. This level of information heightens the sense of presence and the benefit is a more convincing presentation.

It isn’t a case of the SS not sounding good, but rather it couldn’t fool you to the same extent as the SET in presenting believable presence. As a consequence the SET was superior of distinguishing both the players (Monk,Peterson,Ellington or Evans). This also applies to brand differences (Yamaha, Fazioli,Bosendorfer or Steinway). Even less apparent nuances are more clearly contrasted.

This ability to finely discriminate is consistent with all instruments in my listening experiences. I’ve come to realize that perhaps the greatest strength of good SET is its admirable way with the micro,ultra subtle but very necessary details. That it does this in such a natural manner is what’s so impressive. It doesn’t resort to a sterile or analytical character in order to present this beautiful inner detail.

Mapman,
You should give the Atma-Sphere S 30 serious consideration as a lower power and smaller OTL alternative (if you prefer OTL rather than SET).. Surely a good match with your speakers.  Either direction, good luck.
Charles,
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