Jazz for aficionados

***My impression is that when there isn't unequivocal agreement with your assessment of an artist there seems to be a knee jerk reaction in the negative instead of a substantive discussion of the particulars of the "why's and how's"; perhaps I am mistaken****

I think all three of us agree on Carter. Yes, perhaps you are.

***But, to suggest that those guys can't play is ludicrous; those guys can play and they demonstrate superior musicianship even if falling short in the area of authenticity as compared to Delta blues.***

Didn't say they could not play. Did not even say the tune was not blues. I was just pointing out that music can meet certain technical criteria, and still not sound like what the name implies.

****"inner workings"**** aaaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeee!!!!!
you slay one dragon and The Frogman blindsides you with another! Mercy Lord!!

****The "authentic" but mediocre food, or the excellent Nuveau (and barely Mexican) food? For me, it's a no-brainer.***

Depends on the genre. Blues, Gospel, Folk and real Country (not C&W), has to be authentic, otherwise its not really what the name says it is. A lot of modern music has no 'authentic' component to it. It consist of just the notes on the page.

IOW, the current Queen of Opera Divas, can sing any gospel song ever written. Blues and country songs also. Even if this diva was born and raised in Germany. Right? She can get the nuts and bolts, oops, I mean inner workings, perfect pitch and tone, but I doubt if she would get the correct meaning of the music. She would not want to get on the stage with The Gaithers or Mahalia Jackson.

When I was reading your food analogy, I thought about the Little Stevie Wonder song "Finger-tips parts one and two. On the record you can hear a member of the band shouting to his band mates "what Key?,What Key?" hahahaha. Mom and Pop forgot to put the meat in the tamales!!

Other than these few insignificant points, we are in total agreement.

Cheers

Interesting segue!

I don't understand the question. The score is the score and the music is the music as the composer intended it; no more, no less.

Rok, truly no disrespect intended, but unless I am missing something in your question, that is a rather bizarre question; and the reason I keep trying to encourage you to learn more about the... well, you know what (and it can't be bought at a hardware store).

Let me try to answer your question this way:

I am sure that you have several versions of LvB's 9th. OK, so when you listen to them do you hear differences in the music, version to version, other than possibly stylistic differences in the playing and/or singing? You shouldn't. The score is exactly the same always with the possible exception of relatively minor differences in the various editions (certain repeated passages, corrected notes etc.); but, those differences don't, in any way, make the music any more difficult or easier to perform. The scores of major works are considered pretty sacrosanct; you don't mess with them in a significant way. Don't confuse this with some versions of works performed by some of the "classical-lite" orchestras like that of that Andre Rieu dude where the scores are sometimes "modified" to better suit the showy vibe with the multi-colored ladies' concert dress; that stuff is pretty much bullshit.

I would appreciate some more info re your question to give a better answer.

If the Berlin Philharmonic is playing Beethoven's Ninth and the Austin, Texas symphony is playing Beethoven's Ninth, are they using identical scores?

Cheers

Ok, are you referring to the score in terms of the music (notes) written in it, or in terms of the visual APPEARENCE of the notes? If you mean the music, yes they would be identical. Berlin, being a major orchestra probably owns a set of score and parts. Austin, probably not and would rent a set from the publisher.

Now, I made the distinction between the music and the appearance of the score because some works are published by more than one publisher (public domain) while others (mainly contemporary works) are given publishing rights to one single publisher. When there is more than one publisher, the parts will look different as far as the type and size of print font used, size of the page, type of paper etc. But, the MUSIC (the NOTES) will be identical with, possibly, some very minor "corrections" of a wrong note or two. In fact, and ironically, some orchestras have owned their set for so long that the score and parts can be pretty beat up with countless penciled-in markings by different players made over the years to indicate a particular conductor's tempo and phrasing wishes, personal reminders about various musical considerations and everything from bowings for the strings (ever wonder how an entire string section bows up or down at the same time?) to sometimes hysterically funny commentary or "art work" about a hated guest conductor or colleague. This is the reason that most rental sets have a sticker on the score and individual parts stating that any markings must be made in pencil and erased before returning the set to the publisher; otherwise a fee will be billed for cleaning up the parts. Still, many of the markings remain or are not erased fully before going from Berlin to Austin and the Texans may get to see some markings or commentary in German.

The Frogman:

Thanks for an excellent answer. You just could be the most valuable resource on all of Audiogon.

Can we now say that any difference heard between Berlin and Austin would be due to the difference in the skill level of the players? That's what I was trying to determine.

Cheers