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Questioning the need for a DAC

Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
erik_squires
16,129 posts
 
Hi,

You don't need anything that doesn'at actually sound better to YOU. That's for sure. Still, with proper care your ears will last a long time. :)

I’ve heard both. The Schiit is a very smooth DAC with tons of low level detail. The 103 (which I own) is pretty hard on the top end and lacks the decay and ambience.

I would say chances are your system is naturally pretty dark. Rather than blame your ears, next time get a nice set of headphones and compare the 103 to a DAC directly or compare the 103 to what is coming out your speakers. I personally like the AKG 7xx series for being reasonably affordable and great to listen to, if a little hard to drive, which may make lesser amps sound a little lean.

Also if you try another Schiit, make sure you are using it’s built in de-jitter process.

Lastly, you may be having a lot of room acoustic problems. Set up your speakers so they are about 2' from your chair and listen. If you hear a huge leap in detail, it's your room acoustics.

Best,


Erik

jond's avatar
jond
5,846 posts
 
whitestix in what ways is your Oppo modified and by whom?
gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
whitestix, you're mentioning the Oppo 103 and 105 in the same sentence concerning the use or need of an external DAC. Only the 105 model has the "ESS SABRE32 Reference Audiophile DAC" and that is largely the reason the 105 costs twice as much as the 103. 

I'm waiting on their UDP-205 :)
kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
OP, you say you have a "modified" Oppo 103 maybe the DAC in your Oppo is really very good indeed. Any response you'll get from current "regular" Oppo owners will not be relevant to your question. If you're asking a general question, I'd say why not just get a good transport and an external DAC instead of spending $ oink a good CD player and an external DAC.
whitestix OP
716 posts
 
Hello,
The mods to my Oppo were done my Stereo Dave's Audio in Portland and involved some propriety changes to the power supply and DAC.  They cost $375 and were a significant improvement.  My room has two layers of sheetrock with Green Glue in between with significant absorption treatment on the walls and corners but I don't know that it would be considered "dark"   Well-damped, for sure.  I mentioned both Oppo's in the same sentence because they of course both have an internal DAC, are relatively low priced, and both are on Stereophile's list of Class A DAC's.  

I forgot an experience i had at the CA Audio Show a few years back.  I was listening to nice VSA speakers in a room that had a Bricasti CD player.  The music sounded great, indeed.  The exhibitor, an East Coast audio store, also had a Jolida FX Glass DAC which I was keen to hear.  They set it up so they could alternate the music through the Briscasti and then the Jolida with a switch.  This they did no less than a dozen times with three different recordings.  Towards the end of the session, I looked at the two guys doing the demo at the back of the room and simply shrugged by shoulders because I could discern no noticeable difference in sound with either DAC.  They too came to the same conclusion. The Bricasti DAC was $8500 and the Jolida, which I bought on the spot, cost $500.    

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