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Questioning the need for a DAC

Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
whitestix OP
716 posts
 
Hello,
The mods to my Oppo were done my Stereo Dave's Audio in Portland and involved some propriety changes to the power supply and DAC.  They cost $375 and were a significant improvement.  My room has two layers of sheetrock with Green Glue in between with significant absorption treatment on the walls and corners but I don't know that it would be considered "dark"   Well-damped, for sure.  I mentioned both Oppo's in the same sentence because they of course both have an internal DAC, are relatively low priced, and both are on Stereophile's list of Class A DAC's.  

I forgot an experience i had at the CA Audio Show a few years back.  I was listening to nice VSA speakers in a room that had a Bricasti CD player.  The music sounded great, indeed.  The exhibitor, an East Coast audio store, also had a Jolida FX Glass DAC which I was keen to hear.  They set it up so they could alternate the music through the Briscasti and then the Jolida with a switch.  This they did no less than a dozen times with three different recordings.  Towards the end of the session, I looked at the two guys doing the demo at the back of the room and simply shrugged by shoulders because I could discern no noticeable difference in sound with either DAC.  They too came to the same conclusion. The Bricasti DAC was $8500 and the Jolida, which I bought on the spot, cost $500.    

jond's avatar
jond
5,846 posts
 
@whitestix It sounds like you are happy with what you have that's a great place to be! So relax, don't worry about Dac's and enjoy the music. Cheers!
erik_squires
16,129 posts
 
Hotel rooms usually suck. 

Regardless of dac, how are your room acoustics?? I'd spend money there if you haven't already before any more gear at all.
whitestix OP
716 posts
 
We audiophiles are all on a question of sonic improvement, me being no exception.  As Jond rightfully observes, I am at a great place to be with my system, more so that I have been in many years.  Still, not to belabor the point, I am intrigued with what folks are experiencing with the addition of a DAC to a system with an already modern CD transport (i.e., an Oppo or something even better).  I will say that the benefit of the modest upgrade that Stereo Dave did to my Oppo 103 was absolutely evident within the first few notes of playing a CD after I got it back.   A profound difference for a modest cost, no question.  However, in contrast, with or without the Schiit Gungnir in my system, I perceived no difference.  Just my take.  Cheers.   



randy-11
1,913 posts
 
You don't say how you tested nor on what equipment, or music.

I would expect the OPPO DAC to be very good.  I'd also expect the type of speakers (and the ability of the amps to control the speakers) to be fairly critical.  We might be at the dawning of the Age of A-DACiness (an Aquarian analogy where most DACs are pretty durn good; A quality and A+ or A- but no D- DACs).

I did some preliminary testing on a stock Oppo 103 vs. my ancient Cal audio Icon and did not find a different or much difference.  I didn't have time to make up a good A/B set of discs, but RS, Floyd etc. did not sound much different to my 64 year old ears using a Sonic Frontiers Line One > Sunfire Cinema Grand bi-amping Maggie 1.5Qs. I did try hard to listen to the initial attack impulse on drums and perhaps there was something there??

IF I'd used Jazz at the Pawnshop maybe I could have heard a big difference - maybe.  But I don't really like that CD all that much.
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