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Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

I'm looking to possibly upgrade to a better turntable.

My current setup is a Thorens TD166 MKII with the original tp11 tonearm. The table has a few mods including a solid cherry plinth and birch bottom with sorbothane feet. It also came with the 10mm spindle bearing, same one used on the TD160.

Amp: Rogue audio Sphinx 
Preamp: MM preamp built into the Sphinx
Cartidge: Shure M97xe with SAS stylus
Speakers: Monitor Audio Silver 8

The components listed above are my recent upgrades. I now think my table is due for an upgrade. 

I am considering installing a Jelco SA750D tonearm on my Thorens, since the tonearm is likely the weakest performing part of the table, or going with a completely new table.

I am considering the following tables:

Rega Planar 3 (possibly not a big leap?)

Rega RP8

VPI Classic 1 

Acoustic Signature Wow XL with Rega arm.

I am leaning toward the VPI, partly because I really like its look, but I do want the best sounding table under $3000 (subjective I know). Overall, I'm pleased with the current sound from my Thorens, so maybe the best bang for my buck would be a new tonearm. Some members have claimed that a Debut Carbon will blow the doors of a TD166, but in my personal experience, it's the opposite. So I'm thinking I'd probably need to spend over 1K for a real sonic upgrade over my Thorens.

Anyone have experience with VPI tables versus Thorens TD16X series? Any advice is welcome.
helomech
helomech OP
1,735 posts
 
Update: I took a gamble on an Acoustic Signature Wow XL with their TA-700 tonearm.

There was very little info about these tables on the Web, aside from a couple good reviews from the common fluff Hi Fi mags. 

What attracted me to the Wow was the high mass design and that the engineering focus was quiet operation and high build quality. 

The concept is quite simple overall: good speed stability, rigidity and a robust main bearing.
 
I was a little disappointed that the tonearm doesn't allow for any easy azimuth adjustment. I had to shim the cartridge to achieve the proper azimuth. It was a bit of a pain and almost a deal breaker on the arm.

Anyway, I'm currently breaking in my SS Carmen on this table and I'm very pleased so far. It well exceeds the performance of the other tables I tried in almost every respect. I will say that my old Thorens gives it a run for the money in terms of PRAT, but that's not surprising since both have solid speed stability and a few similarities in design.

I plan to write a more comprehensive review on this table when it has gotten some mileage, probably in a new thread.Thanks again to all who participated in this discussion.



tablejockey
3,956 posts
 
"Update: I took a gamble on an Acoustic Signature Wow XL with their TA-700 tonearm"

Helomech, I'm not familiar with the brand, but a look at their website shows a nice looking table.

Good luck!
raymonda
855 posts
 
My Thorens TDC 850 was made by Acoustic Signature. I have molded it though with a Origin Live motor, carbon fiber motor plate and carbon fiber tone arm board. I run an Audiomods arm. The plinth, bearing and platter is very good. 

It is the best table I've owned. Acaustic Signature makes great tables. Enjoy.
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biketony
93 posts
 
I would also like to hear a review of the Classic vs the Thorens.  I have a Thorens TD-160 with a REGA / J.A. MICHELL RB303 TONEARM upgrade and a Denon DL-103R.  Runing thru Mcintosh mc-352 x 2 and Mcintosh C-50, Martin Logan Montis speakers

Have been giving some thought to a VPI classic 1 that has been on cragslist for over a week.  
helomech OP
1,735 posts
 
biketony,

I didn't own the Classic for very long but in the brief time I did, it didn't outperform my Thorens. My Thorens does have some low rumble noise at higher volumes that the VPI did not. I currently have a $300 cart mounted to my Thorens  (with stock tonearm) and it sounded better than the VPI with a Soundsmith Carmen. The VPI clearly ran slow while my Thorens holds almost perfect speed, even without a speed controller. The Thorens just has that great belt-drive analog fluidity and ease to the sound. To me, the Classic sounded like a worn out cassette tape.

From what I've gathered, the older Classic 1s are far superior to recent production models, mostly due to the differences in the motor. I was told the motor is mounted to the steel top plate of the plinth on the older models, but the newer ones, including the example I received, have the motor screwed directly to the wood underneath the top plate. I was told the newer motors are inferior. I won't divulge his name, but I received this info from a very well known and respected audiophile. 

Most Classics are going for somewhere between 2 and 3K. There's many options in this price range, including the Roksan Radius. 
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