Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.

Dear Tim (Pryso), Let me help you with that.  Stewart is full of baloney if he insists on analogizing a magneplanar type speaker with an ESL.  They may both be "flat", but that's about where the similarity ends.  The principles of their operation are completely different.  Thus also their typical impedance characteristics and inherent efficiencies, respectively, are very different.  ESLs that need lots of solid state power are ESLs that were designed with SS amplification in mind and which typically contain crossover networks that grossly waste amplifier power and in the process also create nasty impedance dips at or near midrange and bass frequencies.  If he prefers SS amplifiers to tube amplifiers, that is another matter, and there he is entitled to his opinion.

Frankly, magnepans leave me totally cold. They are dead sounding; they fail to capture the natural decay of musical instruments. Only the later iterations that incorporate a ribbon tweeter are at all listenable, to me.  And that is only my opinion, of course.  The thread is about ESLs, however.

LewM

There's no analogizing......and I know they're different (that's why they're not both called electrostatic)

I have owned LOTS of electrostatic loudspeakers over the years and I have owned Magnetic Planar speakers over the years, and yes.....it is my opinion that both benefit from a lot of juice.......if that makes me full of baloney, then so be it.....does it mean that folks can't get a good sound at reasonable levels with a 60 watt Atmasphere tube amp?  no!  But in my experience, a good dose of juice gives electrostatic loudspeakers (to stay on topic) a more effortless quality better kick in the lower registers....

As to Sanders using 900w amps, his speakers are afterall hybrids, with very prodigious bass at the shows and he will place anyone who comes to his room perfectly on axis in 3 chairs placed along the center line......Once those people buy a pair and get them home, they find out that they again must place their chair along that center line......if they move their head 4 millimeters to the left or right, the soundstage will collapse as will all the detail......I had a friend buy a pair used, drove 400 miles to pick them up , along with the Magtech amp.....got them home, played them for exactly 5 minutes, then put them on Gon.....

I have owned Quad ESL63s, I have owned Acoustat 2+2's with heavily modified Servo amps from their original model X, I have owned Martin Logans.  I now own Magnepan 3.7s  The Magnepan 3.7s absolutely obliterate any electrostatic loudspeaker I have ever owned or heard....they are anything but cold and they capture the natural decay of musical instruments better than any speaker I've heard.....and like you, "That is only my opinion"

But in my experience, a good dose of juice gives electrostatic loudspeakers (to stay on topic) a more effortless quality better kick in the lower registers....

I've yet to hear a solid state amp play bass properly on an ESL, in particular Sound Labs and Quads. On transistors can make thump but have no definition (output impedance is too low). If you don't understand that last statement then you probably listen to a transistor amp. Transistors fail to make bass power on many ESLs (the ML and Sanders being exceptions as their overall impedance is set really low) simply because of the 10:1 impedance curve. Its simple physics- on many ESLs they simply run out of voltage (which is why the bass power is limited). At the same time the speaker is overdamped in the bass so the combination is weak bass without definition. Some people like it, but in the real world there is no such thing as 'tight' (thump but no body) bass. That's an audiophile thing; but if you listen to real, live music you won't be hearing 'tight' bass.

Atmaphere wrote
"Some people like it, but in the real world there is no such thing as ’tight’ (thump but no body) bass. That’s an audiophile thing; but if you listen to real, live music you won’t be hearing ’tight’ bass."

+1 Tight bass sounds unnatural to my ears . Drum , bass guitar ... ect . I have never thought while listening to these instruments "man that is tight" complete opposite actually . "man that bass lingers" is what i hear .
Tight bass can be found with electronic music . And can be judged when listening to it .

We are devolving into semantics.

The alternative to "tight" in my mind is "flabby" or "boomy" which is what usually happens when your speakers go low enough in frequency to exacerbate room modes. +-20 dB peaks and valleys are quite real and detrimental to musical enjoyment.

However, a system that lacks those peaks and valleys, and is flat to 16Hz in the room is a marvelous thing indeed. :)

Best,


Erik