Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.

LewM

There's no analogizing......and I know they're different (that's why they're not both called electrostatic)

I have owned LOTS of electrostatic loudspeakers over the years and I have owned Magnetic Planar speakers over the years, and yes.....it is my opinion that both benefit from a lot of juice.......if that makes me full of baloney, then so be it.....does it mean that folks can't get a good sound at reasonable levels with a 60 watt Atmasphere tube amp?  no!  But in my experience, a good dose of juice gives electrostatic loudspeakers (to stay on topic) a more effortless quality better kick in the lower registers....

As to Sanders using 900w amps, his speakers are afterall hybrids, with very prodigious bass at the shows and he will place anyone who comes to his room perfectly on axis in 3 chairs placed along the center line......Once those people buy a pair and get them home, they find out that they again must place their chair along that center line......if they move their head 4 millimeters to the left or right, the soundstage will collapse as will all the detail......I had a friend buy a pair used, drove 400 miles to pick them up , along with the Magtech amp.....got them home, played them for exactly 5 minutes, then put them on Gon.....

I have owned Quad ESL63s, I have owned Acoustat 2+2's with heavily modified Servo amps from their original model X, I have owned Martin Logans.  I now own Magnepan 3.7s  The Magnepan 3.7s absolutely obliterate any electrostatic loudspeaker I have ever owned or heard....they are anything but cold and they capture the natural decay of musical instruments better than any speaker I've heard.....and like you, "That is only my opinion"

But in my experience, a good dose of juice gives electrostatic loudspeakers (to stay on topic) a more effortless quality better kick in the lower registers....

I've yet to hear a solid state amp play bass properly on an ESL, in particular Sound Labs and Quads. On transistors can make thump but have no definition (output impedance is too low). If you don't understand that last statement then you probably listen to a transistor amp. Transistors fail to make bass power on many ESLs (the ML and Sanders being exceptions as their overall impedance is set really low) simply because of the 10:1 impedance curve. Its simple physics- on many ESLs they simply run out of voltage (which is why the bass power is limited). At the same time the speaker is overdamped in the bass so the combination is weak bass without definition. Some people like it, but in the real world there is no such thing as 'tight' (thump but no body) bass. That's an audiophile thing; but if you listen to real, live music you won't be hearing 'tight' bass.

Atmaphere wrote
"Some people like it, but in the real world there is no such thing as ’tight’ (thump but no body) bass. That’s an audiophile thing; but if you listen to real, live music you won’t be hearing ’tight’ bass."

+1 Tight bass sounds unnatural to my ears . Drum , bass guitar ... ect . I have never thought while listening to these instruments "man that is tight" complete opposite actually . "man that bass lingers" is what i hear .
Tight bass can be found with electronic music . And can be judged when listening to it .

We are devolving into semantics.

The alternative to "tight" in my mind is "flabby" or "boomy" which is what usually happens when your speakers go low enough in frequency to exacerbate room modes. +-20 dB peaks and valleys are quite real and detrimental to musical enjoyment.

However, a system that lacks those peaks and valleys, and is flat to 16Hz in the room is a marvelous thing indeed. :)

Best,


Erik

Dear Stewart, You wrote, "There's no analogizing......and I know they're different (that's why they're not both called electrostatic)"  Wrong!  Your magneplanars and even ribbon tweeters are electromagnetic, not electrostatic. In your speakers, the diaphragm is "wired"; the signal is conducted through wires glued to the diaphragm, which causes it to move back and forth in a magnetic field, much like any other traditional type dynamic speaker. In an ESL, a the diaphragm carries a very high voltage on its surface, and the signal is applied to the stators, stationary wires front and rear of the diaphragm, causing the diaphragm to move due to electrostatic forces. Therein lies the way in which ESLs are totally different.  Furthermore, ESLs, being electrostatic, do not produce a back EMF, as do electromagnetic speakers, so the whole idea of "damping factor", the reason some say that only SS amplifiers can provide "clean" ("tight") bass, goes out the window.