Do equipment stands have an impact on electronics?

There were no speaker isolation stands 25 years ago. Not in the literal sense of the word, anyway. 25 years ago vibration isolation was not even a gleam in some audiophile's eye. Using the laser as you described would not give a sense of how much energy from the speakers was being fed back into the front end electronics via the floor. I’m getting that feeling again we’re not on the same page.

This statement is false. Sound Anchors was making stands for exactly that purpose prior to 1991. We showed with them at CES in 1993.

Here’s the thing: When someone makes a claim, the burden of proof is on them. It’s not up to me to prove that a 2 volt drop doesn’t have an audible effect. It’s up to the claimant to prove that it does. This is Logic 101. More important, trying to assess the affect of a power wire by measuring the AC power voltage is beside the point. The *only* thing that matters is what happens at the output of the connected equipment. Competent audio gear is immune to small changes in voltage, and routinely filters out the typically small amount of noise riding on top of the power voltage.

As always, I’m glad to be proven wrong, and I promise I’ll change my opinion immediately. But in all the years I’ve been at this, nobody has ever provided such proof.

One claim you have made is that power cords don't make a difference. But you refuse to provide any numbers (measurements) to back up your claim. So as you say the burden of proof is on you. When in one case you refer to above where we measured that 2-volt drop, it resulted in about a 30% power loss. It was not only measurable but also audible.

The problem here is that you don't get that some people run higher powered systems (not just a $600 Pioneer integrated amp like you have, but real amps that actually make a lot more power with less distortion). Those pieces (like a large Krell, Gamut, Parasound or Pass Labs) can draw enough power that you do have to take the power cord into account.

The wiring in the wall does not have to be flexible and in most modern homes as a result does not see the same voltage drop. You know you have a problem if your power cord is heating up. If the cord is built into the amp like it is in an integrated Pioneer, you won't ever be able to tell what effect the cord is having.

You say that bouncing a laser off of a cabinet of a speaker is not going to tell you anything about the effect of the cabinet, but you don't have numbers to back up your claim. You're not the only engineer that's been around 40-45 years (sheesh).

Sound Anchors did that test simply to show that of two speakers playing the same test tones, the one on the stand clearly showed that the cabinet was vibrating less. A microphone in the room verified that the speaker on the stand was making less distortion. With a lot of cheap speakers (like the ones you like to use), it happens that cabinet vibration is part of the bass output of the speaker. If you can reduce it, there is less coloration. There is a correlation between the lower vibration and the sound of the speaker (less vibration- more neutral). Sound Anchors showed this 25 years ago. One of the biggest loudspeaker manufacturers in high end audio (Vandersteen) used the Sound Anchors stands for quite a while (until they developed their own).

Ethan, you've been pretty good about your comments regarding digital. But most of your other comments really only apply to mid-fi. Despite your remonstrations you don't seem to operate in the world of high end. Instead of using hubris to make your way, maybe instead it would help to learn what some of the challenges of what happens when you have more power and **in particular** transparency.  A $600 amplifier isn't state of the art and had no intentions of it in its design- its intention was to make money off of the buyer. There's a pretty big difference in high end audio where the intention is to see how good the reproduction can get, and the envelope has been extended quite a ways past a $600 Pioneer!

atmasphere
Geoffkait:There were no speaker isolation stands 25 years ago. Not in the literal sense of the word, anyway. 25 years ago vibration isolation was not even a gleam in some audiophile’s eye. Using the laser as you described would not give a sense of how much energy from the speakers was being fed back into the front end electronics via the floor. I’m getting that feeling again we’re not on the same page.

"This statement is false. Sound Anchors was making stands for exactly that purpose prior to 1991. We showed with them at CES in 1993."

Unless the Sound Anchors had springs in them they weren’t real isolation stands. The first three real isolation stands were Townshend’s Seismic Sink, the Vibraplane and the Bright Star air bladder thingie. I'll make an exception an add the Bright Star sandbox contraption to the list.

Well we’re making progress. At least Ethan now acknowledged that speakers can "shift" the floor. Now we’re talking! I fixed my issues in my house easily and inexpensively so I’ll leave it to Ethan to fix it as needed for his customers. At least there is some hope there now! I have no doubt he’ll be doing some very careful measurements of how much shift in what kind of floors and relating that to what can be heard and/or measured and passing on his research costs to any customers that might care enough to pay.  Meanwhile I'll continue to provide my 2 cents here for free..

What’s also hilarious is that Ethan actually was measuring the wrong thing. The very low frequency vibration, the seismic type vibration, forces the room and the whole building to move - and everything in it! So, when sitting there looking at the speakers, or trying to measure their motion relative to the floor using a laser or whatever they don’t appear to move. But they are moving. Just not relative to the floor. Not only that but the motion of the building is in SIX directions, not just up and down (one direction). I suspect Ethan didn’t think about measuring rotational motion.