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Let's talk Tweeters!

Another thread which talked about specific speaker brands was taken over, so I’d like to start a new one.

Mind you, I do not believe in a "best" type of tweeter, nor do I believe in a best brand of speaker, so lets keep that type of conversation out, and use this instead to focus on learning about choices speaker designers make and what that may mean to the end user.

There is no such thing as a speaker driver without trade offs. Some choices must be forsworn in exchange for another.

In the end, the materials used, magnet and motor structure, and crossover choices as well as the listening room come together to make a great speaker, of which there are many. In addition, we all listen for different things. Imaging, sweetness, warmth, detail, dance-ability and even efficiency so there is no single way to measure a driver and rate it against all others.

Also, please keep ads for your 4th dimensional sound or whatever off this thread. Thanks.
erik_squires
audiokinesis
2,737 posts
 

Eric, I understand your desire to focus on tweeters and not speaker brands, but realistically how is prof supposed to talk about omnidirectional tweeters and not mention MBL? Frankly I cannot think of any omnidirectional or quasi-omnidirectional tweeters that are not brand-specific.

While obviously not using the same tweeter technology as MBL, imo there are other speakers that accomplish some of the same things through what might be called a poly-directional configuration, with the actual tweeters being fairly conventional. But this would be getting into implementation, and implementation is brand-specific...

Duke

prof
3,473 posts
 
I have to echo Duke’s response. I get why you don’t want to mention brands, but it seems to really limit the applicability of the discussion.
MBL makes a very specific type of tweeter as far as I know not found elsewhere, and I have no idea if other manufacturers have produced an omni tweeter design with similarly excellent results. So I can’t say "I like omni tweeters because they have X results" because maybe I don’t like all omni tweeters - I can only speak to the specific ones I’ve heard that sound great. And pointing the the specific brand allows others to know exactly what I’m talking about.

And this really speaks to the whole issue of discussing tweeters in the absence of specific designs and implementations: We all know drivers don’t have qualities that exist in a vacuum - it depends on implementation. I’ve heard ribbon tweeters sound awful, and sound great, depending on how, technically, a specific speaker designer is using it.

How do I discuss the qualities of metal dome tweeters without mentioning the differences in implementation? Way back when metal dome tweeters were becoming more in use I used to agree with many audiophiles that metal dome tweeters sounded hot and metallic. But that prejudice was vanquished when I encountered the way Paul Hales had employed them in his speakers (Transcendence line), which seemed to have all the benefits of the metal drivers without the purported draw backs and characteristics (they were remarkably smooth, rich, sweet sounding speakers - still are, as I still have some).   Now, if someone cares to, they can look into how Hales implemented those tweeters (looking for instance at stereophile's measurements, etc).





wolf_garcia
6,696 posts
 
I’m about to take delivery of a pair of speakers that use ribbon tweeters…a first for me…and I hope they sound as good as the aluminum/magnesium tweeters in my current "I won’t mention the brand as to not anger the OP" speakers designed by Alan Yun. I’m trying these new speakers due to their substantial efficiency with the plan of scoring a single ended low wattage tube amp at some point simply to see what all THAT fuss is about…I'm currently in Push Pull tube land for my main listening rig. I have noticed with my current speakers that although they utilize aluminum/magnesium for both the tweeters and woofers, they’ve been voiced to simply sound somewhat neutral and certainly not "forward" like one might assume metal drivers would sound…nothing hot or metallic in these, and I am certain that the crossover and voicing choices made by competent designers is the thing that matters here, not driver material.
erik_squires OP
16,060 posts
 
Gents,

I agree, it's impossible not to discuss brands entirely, especially when a technology is entirely proprietary like MBL seems to.

I would like to focus on the technology and trade-offs. The post by @prof reads identical to an MBL speaker review. I'm sure it is well intentioned, but I'd like to discourage them in this thread, other threads may of course be started by anyone.

As mentioned, here are my guiding principles:

  • Stay focused on tweeters and their manufacturers (when known)
  • Discuss the technology, materials, construction, and trade-offs
  • Discuss comparisons to other similar and dissimilar tweeters

    • We will sometimes have to mention specific speaker brands, it is inevitable, but if we make speaker reviews common in this thread it destroys its focus. I really want to avoid this thread becoming "Speakers with good tweeters"

    Ultimately of course, this is a group effort, so the contributions are what make a good thread, I just hope we maintain the purpose and add in the spirit of discussing technology and value.

    Best,

    E
    erik_squires OP
    16,060 posts
     
    @prof
    Maybe I missed it, but in your original posting there was nothing about the technology. I only saw subjective opinions.

    Also, no reason why you can’t mention it in comparison, in fact I would like you to. :) Let’s talk materials, operating principles. How does the motor work? How does it measure? What about room tuning and placement?

    Of course, it is also impossible to take a tweeter out of the context of an entire speaker. However, I really want us to discuss trade-offs, benefits, costs of the technology.

    "Brand X makes the most realistic speakers I’ve ever heard" doesn’t enable that type of discussion, and there are plenty of those threads around.

    Look forward to talking about how the MBL drivers work, and even how the tweet is different from their woofers, etc.


    Best,

    E
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