Jazz for aficionados

You're a great guy Mapman, but I think you studied logic and history under Goldilocks.

Thanks but well my German history is admittedly lacking therefore my logic is probably out of ammunition right out of the gate. 😁

More likely my feeble mind can't get up to the lofty level your thoughts float at.
Happy New Year .

Lots of interesting posts here lately, sorry I have not been able to respond sooner!

Frogman - clearly, I have not been listening to much Mel Torme. Your comments that he could swing his ass off and scat almost like Ella blew me away - I have never heard him do anything of the sort, and wouldn't have believed him capable of it, based on the little I have heard. Clearly, I am ignorant of much of his work, which I will remedy at some point (I haven't yet listened to your link - I'm actually in the process of figuring out setting up a new computer based audio chain for my digital listening).

Frogman's Sinatra comments are dead on for me - very well described.

Schubert - Wagner always sets off controversy - I am somewhat of an expert on the subject of Wagner, actually. Mapman is correct when he says Wagner was used for political purposes later by the Nazis, though you are also correct to say that his views are horrid - many people think he just hated the Jews, but he hated pretty much everything that wasn't German. These views are indeed despicable.

That said - there has been some interesting discussion here about an artist's personality influencing one's views of his/her work. Another of my favorites, from the literary world, James Joyce, believed very firmly in the total separation of the artist from his work (in this sense we are speaking of, that is). In the case of Wagner in particular (someone who Joyce was artistically heavily influenced by), this is an obvious necessity. I do understand why someone subjected to it in a death camp would never want to hear it again. I had many distant relatives die in more than one of those camps. However, as an artist, one simply cannot ignore Wagner. This is a man who I would (and have, formally) argue influenced music more than any other artist has ever influenced his or her art form. For decades afterwards, composers had very strong artistic reactions to what he did - music after Wagner fundamentally changed forever in many, many ways, splintering off in all kinds of directions, all of them in some way a reaction (positive or negative) to what he had done (and not in the way he himself predicted, either). It is only in the last few decades that this has not been true anymore. I must stop myself here, or I will type an insanely long post. I will conclude this one by imploring you and everyone else to give his art, his music, a chance. If you do not listen to Wagner, you are denying yourself some of the greatest and also some of the most beautiful music ever composed. As abhorrent a human being as he was, he was also undeniably an artist of the foremost rank and genius, matched by very, very few others, in any art form.