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DACs and bass response?

I'm auditioning dacs in my system. One (COS) was way to analytical, overall, but had very tight bass. Another (Aqua La Voce) is what some would describe as "musical"  and sounds  terrific in all aspects except bass. My cdp alone does better in that regard. I have monitors and no subs. Can I expect that dacs that are hyper-detailed will also offer tighter bass as a rule?
stuartk
stuartk OP
2,759 posts
 
@worldwidewholesales: RE: source, I plan to move to a server. For now, my Jolida cdp is no doubt, less than ideal, but this didn't keep the COS dac from serving up appealing bass. The difference between it and the Aqua were not subtle. What are you using for a server, BTW ? 

@shadorne: your technical understanding is way beyond me. I'm wondering if you could suggest some dacs that "limit (s) master-slave timing adjustments to BELOW the audible range (less than 10 Hz)". I will start paying attention to whether dacs I consider have switched mode power supplies. 

@mikelavigne: I wasn't suggesting that hyper-detailed dacs restrict the bass-- I was wondering whether they, in fact, might have the opposite effect. Sorry if that wasn't clear. 
   
 
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
@stuartk


As far far as I can tell, Weiss, Cranesong and Benchmark use similar methodology to handle jitter.

This article explains how digital processing is done on the Benchmark DAC2. There is a paragraph explaining how timing adjustments are done at always less than 1Hz in the Ultralock 2 approach. Note that adjustments are done in the digital domain which allows very small 4 psec tweaks.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/inside-the-dac2-part-2-digital-processing

I have the DAC3 and it seems to do what they claim and Stereophile gave it a thumbs up recently as they did the Weiss DAC a few years ago.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

lalitk wrote:

Speaking of your Synchro-Mesh reclocker, what about DAC’s internal jitter control? Is it not good enough to reduce jitter on a incoming digital signal? I am just trying to understand the need for external reclocker.  

My DAC is equipped with a high resolution, low jitter clock. The measurements show Intrinsic Jitter <10 pS.

  

I have yet to hear a DAC that is not sensitive to incoming jitter, even those with reclocking inside.  The easy way to tell is to use a cheap S/PDIF cable from a good low-jitter source and then a really good cable.  If you hear ANY difference, then it is sensitive to jitter.  I routinely ask my customers to do this test and 100% of the time they hear a difference.  Jitter almost always matters.

Intrinsic jitter is not a good indicator either.  This usually means that the internal clock jitter has this jitter specification.  This has little bearing on the actual jitter you hear from your DAC.  The associated circuitry and power delivery to that circuitry makes all the difference and usually increases that number 10-100 times.

I recently did jitter measurements on a device that advertised "intrinsic jitter" of less than a picosecond.  The measurements at the S/PDIF termination into 75 ohms showed jitter of 60-80 psec.  Lots of manufacturers say they eliminate all jitter.  Not possible.

Here is some really low jitter at the 75 ohm termination inside the DAC:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154310.0

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

audioengr
3,282 posts
 

Shadorne wrote:

Bass and power supply are linked in every way. This is because they share the same frequencies. The latest DACs are now using switched mode power supplies to great advantage at ultra high frequencies in order to get power supply noise far far away from the audible range.

Well, sort-of.  The real story is that the regulation on SMPS responds much faster than most LPS.  It has little to do with the 50 or 60Hz, more to do with the devices used, the "Q" of the storage capacitors and the technology used for regulation. 

LPS can also respond very fast, if the circuit is designed for it and the output device is really fast.  I provide such a fast LPS for my converter and reclocker products.  I also use SMPS in my Overdrive DAC.  They both can work for digital.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio


stuartk OP
2,759 posts
 
@shadorne: the reasons I haven't tried the benchmark are 1) complaints that it's a very complex component (not exactly plug in and play) and 2)  that it sounds thin/lean. You seem to be very technically competent, so let's set aside complaint #1 and focus on #2. I'll assume that you haven't found the sound to be wanting in this regard. Would you mind listing the source, amplification and speakers you're using in conjunction with the Benchmark? 
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