2. speakers
  3. 1272048158

The Harbeth phenomenon

In my search for a new pair of speakers, I've gone through many threads here and noticed that many owners or fans of Harbeth have almost a love-like connection with Harbeth speakers. It is almost as if the speakers cast a spell upon them. I know many audiophiles love their speakers but Harbeth owners seem especially enamored with theirs. I am extremely puzzled by this phenomenon because on paper Harbeth speakers look average at best and lack many of the attributes that generally make a great speaker.

Their sensitivity of generally around the 86dB mark makes them rather inefficient and therefore, at least in theory, not a good match for many lower powered tube amps, or any amps below 100wpc. Their frequency range is simply inferior to most high-end speakers since they don't go below 40 Hz. This alone should, again at least in theory, disqualify Harbeth speakers from consideration as top high end speakers. And yet I've never heard anyone complain about their bass, while people complain about lack of bass in the Gibbon Nines from DeVore, which is a fantastic speaker. Their cabinets look like a cheap DIY enclosure (disclaimer: I've never seen a Harbeth up close, only pictures). The 7ES-3 is rated B-Restricted, while the smaller and cheaper Usher Be-718 A-Restricted in Stereophile but garners nowhere near the same amount of admiration, praise and following among audiophiles.

So what's going on here? Is this a big conspiracy plot by the company that paid off a few hundred of people to infiltrate audiophile internet forums and a few reviewers? I am of course joking here, but the question is serious. How can speakers so average on paper be so good in real life? I know the opposite is often true, but you rarely see this phenomenon.

Please speak up.
actusreus
cantorgale's avatar
cantorgale
155 posts
 
@el34 
Recognizing this an old thread, it is relevant to my current situation. Like you, I am a classically trained musician (singer) with decades of performing experience, and so find my Harbeth m30.1s both accurate and immensely satisfying.  

I currently run them on a Musical Concepts modded Hafler 125 wpc solid state amp. I just swapped out my solid state MC/Hafler DH 110 pre for a tube line stage and am very satisfied with the effect.

I remain interested in a tube amp. However, I have been warned off by so many because of the Harbeths 85db efficiency that I am concerned about low power tube amps - contra your experience. 

If you are still around this user group, I'd be very interested in your input. 

cantorgale@gmail.com



prof
3,474 posts
 
Just because this thread has been bumped...

An audio store has opened up nearby me and they sell Harbeth.  So I'm often strolling by and stop in, sometimes to buy some vinyl.  They usually have a pair of Harbeths playing.

I have to say...damn the Harbeth sound is seductive!

And this is coming from someone who actually sold his pair of Harbeth Super HL5 plus speakers not long ago!  (I kept my Thiel speakers instead).

Harbeths have such a comfy sound, with beautiful tone, so rich and full and big and mid-rangey.   I always marvel at voices through the Harbeths.  Somehow they are portrayed in a more naturally soft and round, realistic way, vs most speakers which make vocalists sound more hard and electronic.

And the Harbeths seem more amplifier agnostic than other speakers in my experience (as Alan Shaw would claim).  I favor tube amps for my speakers, and the SHLplus speakers sounded great on my Conrad Johnson tube amps.  But at the shop they are hooked up to SS amps and they still make me stop in my tracks, beckon me to sit down and stay to listen. 

Ultimately I know through comparison that I find my Thiels overall more satisfying for my tastes.  But if I didn't have a wife wagging her finger about my speaker addiction, I'd likely grab a pair of Harbeths for a second system.
pdreher's avatar
pdreher
1,212 posts
 
Cantorgale,
I'm on my second pair of 40.1's and have also owned SHL5's.  I prefer tube amps with both speakers... and I've tried a lot of amps, both SS and tube.  I'd be surprised if you'd need anything more powerful than a tube amp with 40 to 60 WPC to adequately drive your 30.1's.  I currently swap between a Music Reference RM9 MKII (125 WPC) and a VAC Renaissance 30/30 MKIII Signature (32 WPC).   The VAC 30/30 is not great for cranking up the volume with rock music, which I rarely do, but it's outstanding with female vocals, jazz and acoustic music.  Don't hesitate to try a tube amp... you don't know what you are missing!   

willemj
1,036 posts
 
Alan Shaw himself argues that you need power, and the more the better. At a recent show in Hilversum in the Netherlands the power meters on the amplifier showed it was producing some 500 watts per channel to drive the M40.1 during peaks in the music. Even Alan Shaw was surprised and it most certainly persuaded me.
Alan Shaw also warns that many tube amps have a non linear frequency response under real speaker loads. Harbeths have a relatively benign impedance curve, but even so, why degrade the carefully crafted flat frequency reponse of the Harbeth designs?
pdreher's avatar
pdreher
1,212 posts
 
Willem,
Do you own Harbeth...and if so, have you tried many moderate powered tube amps? 

As it relates to the flagship M-40.1's, reviews from Stereophile, 6moons and Tone Audio share my experience that moderate power tube amps (as low as 25 wpc) can drive this speaker with excellent results.   

More to discover