This is for Georgehifi especially but others can chime in.

Gdhal what is fact vs opinion? Everything in life is pretty much an opinion when it comes to subjective products.

Is a bottle of $80 Scotch better than a $20 one? It depends on your taste buds and knowlege about Scotch. 

As per the two reviews did any of you guys actually read them?

We had nothing to do with either of these reviews, we don't know Allan Taffel and I think Roger Kano, from Postive Feedback wrote the other review, and we don't know him either. 

I mean common when the Postive Feedback guy states that the $21k T+A amp is in the same class as a $45k D'agastino and you are in the market and can afford such a product would you:

A: Pay twice as much for a D'agastino Momentum Integrated and just trust that because it is a D'agastio it has to be better and be done with it

or:

B: Try to figure out where I could listen to the  T+A piece and see if it really sounds as good or possibly better for half the price?

As per Gpgr4blu's past comments on seeing other products getting similar screeming value reviews, ie a much less expensive product doing battle with one that is 2-3 times its price, I can't really remember seeing too many of those. 

Usually you get what you pay for. 

Musifx read our posts went to his dealer and came to the same conclusion and now is happily in the same camp, and he owns a T+A 2500r integrated, the problem is with all the negativity you guys engender very few people want to chime in and state their experiences. 

You can search up his forum posts and see for yourself.

Per Mr. Mcgrogan, yes who doesn't like a little T+A? 

You will also notice we have never said it is the best, we have said many times that is among the best, YMMV, and is generally priced 1/2 to 1/3rd the price of the best gear.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Gdhal what is fact vs opinion? 

fact
https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+definition&oq=fact+defi&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.6933j1...

opinion
https://www.google.com/search?q=fact+definition&oq=fact+defi&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i57j0l4.6933j1...

Ralph we know about that trick, what you said is that having multiple speakers in the room completely invalidates the results, when they don't.

Actually it does. The problem is that all the cabinets act as bass traps, whether their respective woofers are shorted or not.

This is correct Ralph, and does work to a degree, and only if the bass unit is not cap coupled.

Actually it works whether there is a cap or not. But only to a degree, as you say.

But I was waiting for the light to come on from Audiotroy to tell us he does this, which never happened.
So his knowledge of this and having multiple speakers in the room to demo to the detriment of the sound is limited.

I can't be sure of the latter, but to the former it was pretty obvious that this was not 'old news' despite his remonstrations.

what is fact vs opinion?  Everything in life is pretty much an opinion when it comes to subjective products.

Its not that simple, fortunately. The only reason there is a subjective aspect is simply because the audio industry in general does not recognize many of the physiological aspects of human hearing and so has not devised a test.

That is likely not going to change anytime soon since many of the aspects of my previous statement cause debates all over the web that aren't going to go away anytime soon. But it is a false statement to assume that all things are that subjective- if we understand how the ear works, its a simple matter to apply engineering to solve the issue at hand. That means there is math and stuff...

This is precisely why we've avoided using feedback in our amps and seen reduced market share as a result. Its not because we don't want to sell amps- we do- its just that we want them to sound like real music when installed, and that's not going to happen if the speaker requires the amp to use a lot of feedback.

Such a speaker will only ever sound like a nice stereo. We don't want our amps doing that- we want them to sound real.

It all comes out of engineering and don't think for a second that its all somehow opinion!

Gdhal, there is no such thing as fact in audio when it comes to human ratings as the determiing factor.

Fact which is better a Mercedes or a BMW?

Not stastical data on HP, resale, size of trunk, cost of operation.

Please tell me which is better?

Now if you can tell me in your opinion one is better I am willing to bet ancedotal evidence will be presented, not hard facts.

Who is the best actress? Who makes the best ____________

When polled most people will have wildly different opinions on what the best of anything is in audio, wine, food, acting, painting. music, etc.


Also please pour a $2.00 bottle of Ripple, a $10 bottle of wine, and a bottle of 1957 Chateau Lafeet into a gass chromatagraph and see if it tells you statstical data on the real differences that anyone with a palette can easily taste.

Ball is in your court.

Facts are proven by science, opinion is based on human interaction, consenus, and subjective testing and biases.

I always get a kick out of this (and no offense to mapman mind you)

"I would be looking at something like Bel Canto ref600m amps for top notch sound, bang for the buck, manageable size, and low power consumption/electric bills".

So we spend literally thousands upon thousands of dollars on audio equipment and some are focused on saving a few bucks on the electric bill? I don't care how much my electric bill is if I can enjoy my system.