2. tech-talk
  3. 135904-110926

Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
prof
3,473 posts
 
michaelgreenaudio,

I at least gave the respect of taking your OP seriously enough, trying to understand what you meant, and writing a detailed reply. I tried to distill what you were saying, and give my thoughts in reply, and if I got it wrong, you can simply clarify. Surely as someone who writes so much about his ideas, you would be capable of this.

I'm very honestly interested in the point you wished to make.

But apparently you have deemed me not worthy of this? Or worse, insinuated that I couldn’t understand even if you tried.

And so you have produced another post with no clarity, laced with vague, disparaging insinuations (e.g. "why should I bother with you, who can’t understand what I would say?").

It’s not actually a good model to produce a post so you can wink at some people who "got" your sage insight and insinuate others are too dense or biased to get your point...while not replying to requests for clarification.

That’s not the method of someone seeking dialogue; it’s method of someone who is fine to keep producing "us and them" divisions going.

I would have hoped for more from someone who runs his own forum.


mapman's avatar
mapman
22,198 posts
 
Prof very useful and well thought out post as usual.    
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Prof

I’m sorry you feel this way. You got it wrong. Everyone here is worthy.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

prof
3,473 posts
 
Hi Michael,

I’m sorry you feel this way.


Thanks.

You got it wrong.


I'd be very glad to understand how! I like knowing how I've got something wrong. it's how we learn.  I'm very much in the camp that empirical understanding is really important, so I'm curious if we are exactly on the same page, or how we may differ.

Everyone here is worthy.


Happy to hear it. For a moment there I had the impression you didn't think that I was worthy of a real response.

So, could you please clarify your point, given the questions I raised in my earlier response.

Much appreciated!





michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Prof

Tonight I've had people come in and out dropping off music for me to reference and also equipment. My job requires me to be at the top of the listening ladder cause my clients depend on my absolute dedication and focus. Your post simply knocked me off my focusing. I didn't mean to be rude or have any intent to marginalize your comments. I was just being direct.

Sometimes for me, getting into defending myself takes way too much time and again I can get out of focus. I literally don't have the brain power or time to get into things that cause me to drift. My world is literally jumping from one soundstage to the next with very few breaks. I ask myself if I should be on Agon at all, but when I have folks emailing and thanking me I feel good about what I'm doing here.

Maybe sometime this weekend I can read back through your message to me and get my head around it, but right now all I saw was someone saying I was being disparaging, and didn't have the time to plug that into my vibe.  

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

More to discover