2. tech-talk
  3. 135904-110926

Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
prof
3,491 posts
 
Hi Michael,

I’m sorry you feel this way.


Thanks.

You got it wrong.


I'd be very glad to understand how! I like knowing how I've got something wrong. it's how we learn.  I'm very much in the camp that empirical understanding is really important, so I'm curious if we are exactly on the same page, or how we may differ.

Everyone here is worthy.


Happy to hear it. For a moment there I had the impression you didn't think that I was worthy of a real response.

So, could you please clarify your point, given the questions I raised in my earlier response.

Much appreciated!





michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Prof

Tonight I've had people come in and out dropping off music for me to reference and also equipment. My job requires me to be at the top of the listening ladder cause my clients depend on my absolute dedication and focus. Your post simply knocked me off my focusing. I didn't mean to be rude or have any intent to marginalize your comments. I was just being direct.

Sometimes for me, getting into defending myself takes way too much time and again I can get out of focus. I literally don't have the brain power or time to get into things that cause me to drift. My world is literally jumping from one soundstage to the next with very few breaks. I ask myself if I should be on Agon at all, but when I have folks emailing and thanking me I feel good about what I'm doing here.

Maybe sometime this weekend I can read back through your message to me and get my head around it, but right now all I saw was someone saying I was being disparaging, and didn't have the time to plug that into my vibe.  

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,646 posts
 
One would hope nobody would be fool enough to  go out woodpecking without proper protection. 

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
🦆
mapman
One would hope nobody would be fool enough to go out woodpecking without proper protection.

Is that what happened? 👳‍♂️ Get well, soon!

philemon
4 posts
 
In my very amateur experience, that the room is the ultimate user soundboard is a fact; I believe that designers engineer with specific rooms in mind; a "soft or quiet system (QED, Creak, even Sugden) does better in a "hard room" e.g.  full plaster, lots of wood, high ceilings, (older European-style buildings), whereas a "bright or aggressive system would need gyp rock walls and perhaps some rug; this is even before any tweaking that can be done by placing  absorbent or reflective structures in the room to compensate and balance the room; even a terrible asymmetrical space can be balanced by structure placement. Another major determining factor is how well the components work together: not the money you spend but the complementarity of the units among themselves and then that whole with the room.
More to discover