Talk but not walk?


Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio

uberwaltz,

I’d say geoffkait is *very* familiar with MG’s modus operandi. Have you ever seen their exchanges on the Stereophile forum? I only just stumbled upon them and...lemme tell ya...watching these evangelical purveyors of flaky audio products troll each other for pages on end is one of the internet’s strangest and most ironic sights. ;-)
(Though it gets old very fast...)


Post removed 
MG the thing is yes this thread that you started has turned out to be a big nothing burger. Your main goal appears to be as prof indicated launch vague criticisms and convince people your place is much better and get them to hang out and maybe spend some money there instead.

It is what it is. That’s cool. Got it!


geoffkait,

I am very real. Laminar flow, Reynolds number, DREs, and whatever else. Unfortunately, my questions remain unanswered.


Wondering what someone with experience, website, and business about changing the way rooms "sound" would think about a hypothetical room with different Reynolds number is not much more far-fetched than influencing magnetic field of plastic or elevating cables from the floor to get deeper bass. In fact, I would argue that it is, in theory, way more influential. It is not that far from your idea about cups of water in front of the speaker. Maybe only with much more influence on the sound in the room. As you surely guessed, Reynolds number came to me because of laminar flow which somehow gets organized by those planks stuck on the ceiling. Now, if you could be helpful and explain the mechanism of that, I would be more than appreciative.

I am not sure what you find humorous in my note to testpilot, but I am glad you enjoyed it.
So Michael, you have taken your vague and insinuating OP and simply augmented it with equally vague and insinuating paragraphs.

Is it possible we will ever get anything specific from you?

I mean you once again disparage some mystery person or persons in which "folks" in "20 different threads" are speaking of things about which they haven’t the necessary empirical experience. Then you declare to us:

"That’s just a fact."

Um, no. We don’t actually have to take whatever you just declare as "fact." What you have just given, yet again, is simply an assertion. You don’t mention who all those "folks" are, no specific examples or members, so we can’t evaluate your claim to these "facts." Maybe these people are giving a perfectly good account of their own viewpoint. Why in the world should we just take your word on this?

You’ve already shown a cagey and dismissive style - implications and assertions without actual arguments to back them up - with "folks" like me on this thread, so it hardly gives confidence you are giving a fair account of other people’s arguments.

With a hobby that is based on doing and the fact that all of us have a system right in front of us, why would anyone want to put talk above actually doing. Makes no sense to the guy reading these threads. Or as I put it Why talk without walking?


You are doing it again, Michael. Throwing off disparaging comments in vague directions.

WHO or at least WHAT are you actually talking about? Give some sort of specific examples of a case of "not actually doing."

Because for the most part I see people in this forum DOING stuff and reporting on it all the time. We check out new speakers. We report on that experience. We do something more with our system - e.g. move our speakers, change a component, introduce a tweak - and people report on THEIR EXPERIENCE all the time. The vast majority of posts here are people doing things and reporting on it. Or relying on past experiences to inform whatever view they have.

If you are going to come on here and keep telling us that some significant proportion of people deserve your critique, at least have the wisdom and fairness to make it clear what you are talking about.

Nobody can defend a position against your criticisms - to see if your criticisms are even legitimate or fair - unless they know what you are talking about.

If I came on to your forum and said "There's a bunch of people here who just don't know what they are talking about; they simply don't have the experience to warrant their viewpoints."  How graciously would that be received?  And if I just kept making that assertion over and over, without ever giving examples or bothering to engage in anyone's defense against my criticisms...just how welcome would that behavior be in your forum?

But you apparently think that is "good guy" behavior who just wants peace harmony and to spread the gospel when you do it here?  Can you not see how this would be a problem?

So: again: Please just give us a specific example of what you would consider "not doing" or "not walking the walk."

Otherwise you are just polluting the forum with self-aggrandizing mumbo jumbo that simply implicates yourself as enlightened, risen above some unwashed masses you continue to allude to without ever backing your criticisms up . (And of course, this is accompanied by not so subtle hints to come to your web site...)