Pre amps cost vs. value ... what I discovered last month.


Greetings all.

I’m a mastering engineer. www.magicgardenmastering.com . We use Acoustic Zen balanced cabling, highly modified Cary 211 FE tube amps, Bricasti M1 SE DAs and Joachim Gerhard’s Allegra speakers. TORUS balanced power comes 220 from the street. The room is excellent, and you would love to hear it.

For 15 years the pre amp/router was a Crane Song Avocet. I paid around $1800 for it.

Recently decided to try a couple of audiophile products in the pre amp stage and was shocked and saddened how bad they were. Yes, the studio designed Avocet has a relay click for each 1db step, and yes it has a rack mounted 2U body with a corded remote, but it’s clear folks are really getting taken to the cleaners on pre amps. The older and highly regarded Boulder 1010 (used price $5500), was just terrible, truly terrible. The new and fully broken in BAT vk-43SE (demo price $7500) was much better, but still had a cloudy tone as compared to the class A Avocet. Not sure if that’s the cap or the transformer, but it made everything less clear and more generic, more distant from the music.

That’s all. Happy listening.
128x128brianlucey
@Initm Have not heard the Ayre, have heard the Levinson line a couple of times now (too dry for me)

@soundsrealaudio I’ll look into that one, thanks.

@dweller you are simply a rude person, from the first reply "To many variables (should be ’too’ by the way) to consider your opinion respectable. Please specify everything pertaining to your listening trials and I’ll get back to you." ... to your next reply "Please find someone to read my post to you as you obviously have poor comprehension skills. " to your last reply.  A hole attitude.

My opinions are respectable based on credential, and you are no one to my world, yet I am giving you the most respect possible given your tone.
Please post your full name and credits in production and "I’ll get back to you" ... how rude would that be to say to you?

Sure, I could spend 20 minutes typing out my equipment mods, and testing methods and all manner of information on how and why I do things in depth, and yet I’m busy. I'm not here to work   I get paid to use this studio and paid to teach. Maybe be happy I want to banter here in a respectful way with others who love music. Be not demanding. That is an a hole attitude, factually speaking.
When you come out of the gate with these kind of bad attitude replies, and then you can’t GOOGLE Allmusic as you’re bitching about a 1968 recording that is off topic, then you have too many emotional issues for me. Maybe issues with "Mastering Engineers" as a profession, or just with audio engineers ... I have no idea who you are or what your deal is. But you are rude and wasting everyone’s time. I’m here to banter with cool people. You’re out.
@dweller
Sorry, but your initial reply was presumptuous and condescending. There may have been "too many variables", maybe -- but whereas the OP tried to establish his cred in his post, you just came across as a judgmental troll subpoenaing a member.  
@jnovak I would not say that listening is about copying any mastering room, that is in fact, actually impossible. What you want to do is enjoy music. Whatever that requires. Upgrade your room treatments as you find that is the weak link. Upgrade the X or the Y when that is bothering you. Active listening is not based on a hypothetical measurement or a grand theory of reproduction. Our listening evolves over time, we would hope, and as it does our needs in playback evolve. The weak link is the next thing to address, and NOT addressing anything is a beautiful thing. We can simply enjoy music in those periods of time. For the audiophile the listening room is an instrument, it’s your contribution to the recording. For the mastering studio engineer the listening room is both our set up space for assuring translation and it’s our template space for doing the work that results in our unique presentation as a ME. All mastering rooms, like all ME’s work products, are different. Nothing is perfect or repeatable in music playback across rooms, time, temperature, pressure, etc. Translation means that something has it’s integrity in ALL playback forums. There is no one perfect playback situation. When I listen to my work in the world, in all manner of locations, I’m happy to hear it always sounding like itself. That’s translation. The essence is there, with the local color added. From 24 bit to mp3, from radio to TV to sports arena, to strip club, to local restaurant to $200,000 system in a stupid hotel room, to a nice home set up at any price and age. But there is NO PERFECTION in music making, or music reproduction. There is no "sound as the artist heard it". Music playback is a moving target, not a fixture.  It's not about perfection it's about translation with a lower case T, local color added ... and it's about emotional captivation of individuals, a connection with the artist or composer, that happens through the listening experience. This is a concept that too many seem to miss.
@simeo in my experience those who are both too impatient or maybe lazy to do the research, and also so fast to be defensive and start quoting words that were never said to support their state of mind, are not rational enough to engage in a healthy way. So while I thank you for your support, I would caution you that some people are past engaging in reasonable replies once they get fired up. I can get fired up, and I can back it down. Yet I can read the tea leaves too.
My first post was IMO a sufficient explanation of the set up. My room, I would hope very obviously, is going to be better than 99% of the rooms that anyone here is using .... and since the room is maybe half the sound, that should be enough to engage with basic respect. Sure, I could have mentioned how I helped Bricasti to reprogram their filters after hearing a flaw in the the unit 4 years into it’s life in the market, and how my required mods are standard now for all M1 SE. I could have mentioned all the tube and cap testing done on the 211, or a host of techniques on listening and A/B comparison that I use that are never discussed online. But again, I get paid to teach. I didn’t think that was needed to converse here and it’s not fun for me to go there ... way past the nerdy gear lust stage, and proving my value stage of this game. My life’s work is elevating humanity by connecting one artist with one individual, very deeply, on a physical, intellectual and emotional level. Then the credits. Easily Googled. My clients at the top, can afford anyone in the world, last year four Billboard #1, and The Greatest Showman was #1 in 77 countries on iTunes. Many Grammy winners and Aria winners, etc. And that should all go without being said, available to anyone doing 4 slicks of research.
Back to work.   Let's keep this thread about Pre Amps, and costs and not get in the weeds any further.