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Used Market Savings vs. The Dealer Experience

Hi all,
I’ve asked a couple questions on these forums and have always gotten great advice, so I’m coming back to the well. My fundamental question is: how do you reconcile (or balance) the auditioning value a dealer provides vs the absolute dollar value you get from buying on the used market?

I bought a McIntosh MA252 recently, and it’s so great it’s convinced me to commit and invest in a serious hi-fi system. I’d drop $30k for something that put my jaw on the floor. Right now I’m running Goldenear Triton 2s, a Marantz TT-15 TT for analog, Mytek Brooklyn + Bluesound Node 2i for digital, and just replaced a Marantz PM-8005 with the Mc. Silnote cables all around. The Mc gave me my first taste of actual holographic imaging and sound you could reach out and touch. Now I want more of that, as well as greater/faster/more pronounced dynamic shifts.

I have a dealer nearby that’s been a joy to work with (bought the Tritons and Mc there). They let me listen to their 200k Wilson setup with D’Agostino amps and sweet little baby Jesus -- it was like trying to box a feral animal in the complete darkness. Lashes of sound just came out of nowhere, smacked you upside the head, and were gone. I was dumbstruck. The Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs, by comparison, were a smoother, more musical sound signature but far less of that arresting clarity.

I make this point because, had I not been allowed to audition this gear, I would have had no idea about any of that. In doing my due diligence to shop for a setup, I know I want to hear Focal Sopras, Olympica IIIs again, Goldenear T-Refs AND maybe a Wilson Sasha for good measure. I want to hear Mc separates, ARC separates, Rega TTs, Linn TTs, etc. To me, my dealer provides real value in auditioning, optimizing, and being confident that what I’m buying is what I like best.

Unfortunately, with new vs. gently used prices, the $ cost of that experience is massive -- $10k+ quite literally. On the used market now I can get Olympica IIIs for $7k instead of $13.5k, a Rega RP10 w/ Aphelion for $6.5k instead of $9ish, Mc C1100 + MC275 for $13k instead of $20k, and a pair of Sasha’s at $15k is within striking distance. New? They’re $30k. I also live in a high sales tax (10.1%) area, which doesn’t help anything.

For those with more purchasing experience, or even dealing experience, how do you square the value of auditioning gear with the exorbitant relative cost of then foregoing the used market? I feel definite guilt sucking my dealer’s resources to then just go buy it all online. That’s bad business, and if everyone did it, there would be no dealers, and heck, no new gear being made.

Is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,
Ben
bfjones01
abd1
155 posts
 
I almost exclusively purchased used, open box or close out. Some dealers have good used sections or offer great deals on closeouts/demos, which I'm fine purchasing because they're usually in great shape and the tech in 2-channel audio doesn't change that fast. Echo Audio in Portland is great. I also got Triton 2's from Chelsea Audio in Portland for $1200. I've saved thousands of $$ which has allowed me to own stuff I couldn't if I purchased new. The one new purchase I made was Salk Song3's as they're hard to find used and I wanted the cabinets matched to some furniture, and I do like supporting independent businesses. My rough estimate for my 2 channel system would be about $10k new. I paid about $6-7k in my estimation. My 7.1 system would retail for about $9-10k. I've paid about half of that (Emotiva stuff doesn't have great resale value, but they are great deals used and it works great for HT ;) ).

Anyway, that's just been my approach and its worked for me.

jond's avatar
jond
5,706 posts
 
I had the experience of buying a succession of used tube amps on Audiogon and taking them to the local dealer, Deja Vu Audio, for various repairs. They were smart enough to always loan me an amp, an amp that always sounded better than the one I brought in for repair. Finally I broke down and bought the amp they kept loaning me! A demo at a nice price and traded my amp in as partial payment.


As someone said above had I wandered in there at the start of my journey and bought that amp it would have saved a lot of time a good chunk of money and a fair amount of angst! I recently bought my new speakers from them, I got great advice and time to audition and couldn't be happier.

I do still buy stuff used, mostly cables and accessories but any big purchases in the future will be from my dealer.
bfjones01 OP
6 posts
 
Thanks all for the responses!
@fstein I do suppose "serious" is a purely subjective term -- perhaps "higher end" is more appropriate. My current setup is no slouch.

As I read these responses, my dealer actually emailed me recalling a conversation we had before the holidays. She’d researched a piece I suggested and proposed a superior alternative from the same brand for same money.
I’m going in on Saturday and we’ll see what happens.


austinbob
235 posts
 
I think what is missed in this discussion is the discovery. So you decide you like good equipment. You find some nice speakers and match amplification and sources. Are you satisfied? How about separates? Maybe a better/different DAC. Or new cables. Or upgrading your cartridge or turntable or phono preamp? Point is, it’s doubtful you’ll assemble a system from a dealer (or used) and be satisfied. You’ll want to experiment and learn through experimentation what’s synergistic.  No dealer will carry all the lines you’re interested in. In my case, in the last year I bought a new integrated amp and digital server from a dealer and received a decent discount from list. My speakers were bought used. My turntable used, cart and phono pre new. Cables new after being able to demo. I would suggest that unless you live in some retail nirvana or are easily satisfied, buy both new and used and understand that depreciation is what you pay for. 
lhasaguy's avatar
lhasaguy
331 posts
 
Sharing my own experience, I bought new Maggies (3.6) about 10 years ago with some electronics from a dealer.

I love the Maggies, but my amp could not so them justice.  In my journey I finally bought a pair of McIntosh MC501 mono block amps.  In addition to being magic with my speakers, I coukd sell them for what I paid 10 years ago.

The same is true for my C220 tube pre amp.  

What I am trying to say, taking the long way around is that if you like the Mac sound (I know many who do not), the cost to acquire the components is very small if you decide to resell.

Dealers need to make a living, yet those with constrained resources often benefit by buying used one version back from the newest shiny thing.
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