2. amps-preamps
  3. 142193-89892

Thinking about upgrading, but wondering about diminishing returns

Hi folks,

I have mostly Conrad Johnson Gear-- LP260M SE mono blocks, with 8 kt120 tubes each.  These are SET amps that put out 270 wpc.  I have the Conrad Johnson  ET5 preamp, with a Telefunken 6922 tube, and a pair of EgglestonWorks Viginti speakers (their new take on the Andra's).  Phono stage is the Pass Labs XP-15.  For source material I have a Rega  RP10 with the Apheta2 cartridge, and the Oppo BDP105 (Modwright upgrades) CD player.  I have Audioquest Colorado interconnects (go easy here :) ) and Audioquest Oaks for speaker cable.  My listening room is 13 x 19, carpeted floor, drywall walls and ceiling (well insulated).  I set up with the equipment on the long wall, with me listening from the 13' side (with speakers in about 2 feet and about 8.5 feet apart).

I listen to a mix of vinyl and cd's; vinyl when I have several hours to listen quietly (and clean the records on the Clear Audio Matrix Pro Record Cleaning Machine).  I listen to CD's when I have less than an hour, and for when I work out.

I am thinking about upgrading a single component, probably my preamplifier, to a Conrad Johnson GAT2 or a Pass Labs XS preamp (solid state). My thought was that this will likely make the most improvement in soundstage, imaging and overall musicality.  A used GAT2 will be at least $14K and the Pass XS used is about $19K.   I am interested in hearing from those who have had experience with upgrades like this.  I am also wondering (as a middle class guy)  how close does this come to the law of diminishing returns?  Finally, is this the component you would upgrade, and if so, if you had a wide range of musical tastes-- mostly classical/full orchestra in vinyl and rock on CD's, which preamp would you select?

Please feel free to take a swipe at these questions, and also feel free to point out if you feel I should be asking different questions that will help increase my knowledge and advance the cause for others.

I am likely to go to an audio show sometime, but please don't suggest that I go and listen to the gear, as that's at least 200 - 400 miles, and I don't feel right about going to a brick and mortar store knowing that I will almost surely buy used.

Thanks in advance for whatever assistance you can provide.


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brianlucey's avatar
brianlucey
153 posts
 
"Upgrade" ... is a subjective thing ... and EVERYTHING has diminishing returns.

So you are correct to be concerned about them!
You should never buy ANYTHING unless you are :
1. Unhappy with your system, for a good long while.
2. Able to pin down what you want
3. Able to pin down what piece is the weak link and causing the issue.
Room treatments are a great idea. As a mastering engineer the room is huge ... and speaker placement is key. 1/4" this way or that can achieve huge gains. Then it’s the gear, which is also huge.  See 1,2,3.

Enjoy !
lous's avatar
lous
203 posts
 
Hi liamowen, I believe that your 6DJ8's are a weak point. I have an AR LS15 which had V-Cap teflon caps bypassing the factory caps and thought I was done. Then I read about the Schitt Audio Yggdrasil DAC. I was so impressed with it that I bought their Freya, which with the right tubes, was a big step up, but that you need to blend tubes meant that something was less than perfect as neutral tubes should make it sound best, but it doesn't. That sent me to the Don Sachs DS2 preamp. Don spend decades upgrading HK Citation tube gear and McIntosh tube gear primarily. Then he found Roy Muttram's SP14 preamp, which he has spent several years improving. His DS2 preamp is neutral, and good 6SN7 tubes blow 6922/6DJ8 tubes away. They are just a far better sounding tube. As far as cables go, Cardas cables are about the best commercial cables I have had in my system, but honestly cables made with Dualund's improved version of Western Electric's tined copper cables. You can pick them up for less than $100 for SE cables, and perhaps $50 more for balanced cables. My AQ Colorado cables suck badly, but I can't speak to their higher end cables. That's where I would start though, as for speaker cables Dualund's 12 gage cables from Partsconnexion may be a little small for the power that you are supplying, so I would look at Western Electric 10 gauge cables, but there are now counterfeit cables out there. My source is now out of the 10 gage cable, so I can't tell you who may have the real thing now, it hasn't been produced in decades. The thing is though, for $100 or less, you can find out if I have a clue or not. Beyond the better cables, and the DS2 preamp, the Schiit Yggdrasil would likely be in the mix. I became completely frustrated with vinyl long ago. I had a Sota Saphire with a Souther liner tracking arm, and a hand full of other arms, Micro Benz, and other cartridges, but it was the PITA of dealing with vinyl that finally made me give it up. I was paying $50 or more for records that had more imperfections out of the original packaging than a $3.99 LP I bought as a kid had. I had multiple cleaning machines, but even when I cleaned the release wax off a new LP it sounded like crap, it didn't matter what arm, TT, or cartridge I used. I have heard that the PS Audio DAC sounds better than the Yggdrasil, but Schiit recently upgraded the Yggdrasil, and I have not personally listened to the PS Audio DAC. Other than that I don't know enough about the rest of your gear to speak intelligently about it. I hope you find your way to a system that you are finally content with!
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Hierarchy of sound - A tweaked inexpensive system can be made to sound better than a much more expensive system that isn’t tweaked. Corollary - you can spend much more on Tweaks than you can on equipment upgrades if you’re not careful. 😛
kahlenz's avatar
kahlenz
274 posts
 
Go to a brick and mortar store, listen to some gear, and develop a relationship with the dealer.  Buy from him/her.  This is a much better "deal" than buying something used with no warranty that you cannot listen to first.
analogluvr
859 posts
 
I would change /add room treatments firstThen maybe new cartridgeThen maybe new turntable and arm.
 I would only mess with cabling if you had an absolute 100% return policy. Then I would make sure to remove any bias by having someone switch them for you so you don’t know which is being used. If you still perceive a huge improvement with the new then keep it otherwise return. 

 I think you have a great system, I wouldn’t bother changing your preamp the one you have is very good. And just to nitpick that is not an SET amp. 
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