Personal confuser Audio which aspect has the greatest impact on SQ?

@Eric
thanks much.

for clarity sake… again…..

my curiosity here revolves around these upscale server - renderers and or the one box music streamer gizmos proliferating the digital market.

from Sonars Micro Rendu, various itterations of Aurenders, Wolfe Audio, Lumen, Blu node, etc., and as well of late, some dSP preamp and DAC combos ala Legacy and Anthem for example, just how relevant is a stand alone DAC in developing the digital signal anymore?

I believe in perhaps two cases recently I heard systems which used either wolfe or Lumen music streaming units as sources into standard preamps sans dACS, and I felt the result was very good and extremely good in those two instances

naturally then I began wondering just how significant stand alone dACs are becoming these days, especially if or when a person is not gonna be dropping large wads of cash into their outfits?

two rigs with DACs….
one case I recalled did have a preamp/DAC in the chain and I felt that one as well was exceptionally nice sounding. it ran a Bel Canto ‘black box’ (?) unit and fed a Carver 75wpc tube amp. with Blade Iis as the speakers this little setup was fascinating.

lastly the goose Bumps rig was the Merril Audio and MuAudio combo, which had a EMM labs 2x DAc feeding Merril’s christine pre, and 116s monos. top notch sounding! Really! I’m not at all keen on ‘stat speakers but there was a setup even I could be quite happy with for a good long while.

both the BC DAC/pre and the EMM Labs dAC cost about the same money retail.

so the question begging to be addressed is “Has the ‘stand alone’ DAC been supplanted or is it about to be kicked to the curb by the new enclave of music streamer and or renderers, Integrated amps, modular Preamps ala aVM, Bel Canto, etc.?

unless one is willing to throw a new Jet Ski and trailer into the system by adding a stand alone DAC I’m thinking one may not be necessary, either now or very soon.

I think that the question posed by the OP is a very good one.
Essentially, if I may rephrase it, OP is asking: Formerly DAC Quality was was an issue in the chain.  Can we now assume that even the least DAC will have hit a minimum standard of quality that  attention, and resources, are best applied to the other links?
  One of my previous DACs was non asynchronous: PS Audio Digital Link III.
it was very good with it’s tos link and coax inputs, but terrible over usb-flattened the sound stage like a pancake.  When devices began to appear that reclocked the usb output of the computer, it finally started to sound listenable.  Today it would be hard to find a DAC that doesn’t correct this.
  Do all DACs therefore sound alike, and can we ignore differences between them?  The answer is decidedly no.  I recently had two DACs in regular use that sounded wonderful indidually but could not have sounded more different from each other.  I still think that the DAC will be the biggest determinator of the sound.  That isn’t to say that the other links don’t matter.

@mahler123>
... OP is asking: Formerly DAC Quality was was an issue in the chain.  Can we now assume that even the least DAC will have hit a minimum standard of quality that  attention, and resources, are best applied to the other links?

When devices began to appear that reclocked the usb output of the computer, it finally started to sound listenable.  Today it would be hard to find a DAC that doesn’t correct this.

  Do all DACs therefore sound alike, and can we ignore differences between them?  The answer is decidedly no.  

I recently had two DACs in regular use that sounded wonderful indidually but could not have sounded more different from each other.  I still think that the DAC will be the biggest determinator of the sound.  That isn’t to say that the other links don’t matter


OP>
well said!

of vast import is NOT adding back into the digital chain more ERRORS and maintaining signal integrity with the ones and zeroes.
.
I am fast coming to the opinion that UNLESS one throws demonstrably large wads of cash into a stand alone dAC, d(15K or more at retail) the current SOTA in DA conversion is at or very near its zenith.

this is of course barring some new 'warp drive' innovation in DA design and or technology, which is of course as yet unknown.

I feel from what I've experienced of late, only the 'statement or Reference' level dACs clearly surpass the offerings beneath them.

this observation leans heavily on the advances in 'clocking' and remarkable attention being given to the upscale dAC power sups.

this means, on balance, the threshold for diminishing returns has been substantially elevated via the DA conversion tech being employed almost universally in present DACs.

one already mentioned earmark of DA conversion advances is the proliferation of dACs across the board offer now merely a plethora of 'differences' rather than a multitude of 'betterment' with respect to audio quality.

not only are there chocolate and vanilla but chocolate toffee and vanilla toffee too.

given each compliant facet of the audio system does play a role, even to the point of redirecting or elevating SQ, the dAC itself can not be squarely set in the sights as the make it or break it link in the chain, and as such, investigating the items upstream of the DAC have become worthy of more in depth examinations.

for EX: one AQ product for $50 which is a USB plug in is getting loads of credible press as being able to deliver improved SQ.

EX; as previously pointed out herein, addressing likely or possible issues with power line gremlins is now more worthy than before of greater consideration.

even the protocol for streaming is of greater consequence than in previous years, ala ethernet or the rest of the usual suspects, USB, and or coaxial interfaces.

how long will it be before we have multiple options for digital converters that work off the grid entirely?

obtaining great audio thru the digital side of the coin is getting cheaper, though remaining uber concious of the seemingly lesser devices and software that contribute to the audio being 'clicked up' is key.

consider then these new 'interface converters' referred to as bridges' that reside on the LAN or are attached between the PC and what ever D/A converter.

each time I’ve added in some level of Digital converter upstream of a dAC the outcome has been an audible improvement.

these instances have always been limited by means, but the consideration then is exactly the increment of sQ upgrade resulting from those devices which seem to forecast a greater investment there can yield formidable gains.

my trepidation however is fortified by budgetary and philosophical restrictions, given the cost of some of the more highly praised ‘bridges’ out there which run around $4K to $5K give or take a bit!

in several cases as much as a quite competent stand alone DAC!!

and likely adding on yet another wire as well.

hence, the ONLY rationale for going forward with a similar mainstream DAC investment for installing a new bridgte would have to be the audio quality is decidedly improved, not merely made different.


without respect to cost, have the additions of a bridge in your system brought about ‘night and day’ SQ gains?

just how relevant is a stand alone DAC in developing the digital signal anymore?

I think the issue is one of control, and upgrades.


I mean, if you find an all in one you like, you should absolutely buy it. Fewer parts, smaller, fewer cables. Especially in small apartments, bedrooms.


However, my current set up is a Raspberry Pi -> Mytek Brooklyn -> Luxman 507ux Integrated.  Retail is a modest $8k or so, but still not money I'd like to shuffle or attempt to sell used and buy something else.


Let's say I don't like the wireless user interface (UI) , no problem. Install something different on the Pi, or get a streamer with built in storage I like. Problem solved. My sound quality remains the same.


Lets say I want to upgrade my DAC to a Manhattan. No problemo. The Luxman stays put. The streamer which has my music and a UI I like stays exactly the same.


Having said this, I pay for all the cables, gadgets and the ability to control exactly what each component is. I don't sweat that I paid several thousand dollars for the Luxman and might find a DAC I like better, which then causes me to throw it all away together.


So, reading what I just wrote, the amount of money you spend matters. If you can find an all in one for $150 and maybe in two years doesn't support your music store or goes out of business and no longer supports current iPhone/Android, well, throw it out and buy latest.


Best,
E