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Can anyone hear the difference when you add REL subwoofers when playing two channel

I wonder if anyone else has had problems hearing a difference when adding REL subwoofers to their two channel systems?  I have gone back to a reputable dealer in town to listen to a pair of Vienna Acoustic Mozart's paired with a REL S3 and I couldn't detect a difference when they added and subtracted the REL.  I wonder if this was because the Vienna Acoustic Mozart's are already can extend down to 30 Hz.  I have also read reviews on the Mozart's and they said one of their criticisms was they felt the Mozart's to be too boomy in the bass.  

The dealer keeps telling me I am expecting to hear a more punchy pounding bass sound and that is not what I should be listening to.  He keeps saying I should be listening for greater depth and space to create a larger sound stage.  He went on to say if I had a subwoofer that delivered too much bass, they would eventually drive me out of the room and spoil my enjoyment of listening to music.  I thought I had sensitive ears to sound, but in this case I wonder if I am tone deaf.  My fear is getting a pair of T/9i's in my home and my wife telling me I wasted our money because she could not hear a difference. 

There must be a reason why so many dealers have told me their first pick would be a REL because they are so musical.

I also question why REL manufactures their subs with such low wattage?  For example, their S3 delivers only 400 watts and their T/9i's deliver just 300 watts.  When comparing them to  subwoofers like JL, which deliver 750 watts to $1500 watts, maybe REL subwoofers are just too wimpy.
128x128larry5729
lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,561 posts
 
larry,

What are your room dimensions? Don’t be alarmed by low watts. The idea behind employing sub in a two channel setup is to strike weighted balance and full-range musicality not earth shattering bass as in typical home theater setup. 
jl35
4,017 posts
 
And they are not sealed, they have downward passive radiators 
jl35
4,017 posts
 
I've always read that when a sub is properly dialed in, you should not notice it, but when it is shut off, the difference is quite noticeable...many say it takes a few days of listening before you realize the difference the REL is making, not just in deep bass, but in overall sound...
erik_squires
16,156 posts
 
Kind of agree with the dealer, but it also sounds like the subs aren’t well integrated. I mean, no, you should not be getting chest thumps, but well done, subs are GLORIOUS!! The effects he feels you should be getting you aren’t.

If you can’t hear a difference, it’s not worth money to you, then don’t buy it. :)
To integrate a sub well into most spaces you need a pair of bass traps and DSP EQ.

Without this, you are forced to cut corners, and often that means leaving the sub at too low a level to really do it’s thing. Turn it up, and the room modes wake up and destroy the sound.

The thing JL does better than almost any sub maker is the DSP/ room correction. This lets them contribute more, and go deeper.  Often a "Musical" sub means it can't go deep, so the dragons stay slumbering.

m-db's avatar
m-db
985 posts
 
As jl above points out a simple way to hear what a subwoofer is doing is to simply turn it off.  

The REL method of speaker or high level connectivity was a solution to connect to receivers back in the day that lacked pre outputs. The assumption is using the same signal the speaker gets exceptional integration is guaranteed.   

REL describes their product as providing bass extension and is not a subwoofer. In my experience their products ability to integrate and their bass performance is mediocre. Regardless of my opinion, if its connectivity and presentation appeals to you that's all that should matter.

Higher end subwoofers such as JL Audio F series and Velodyne DD Plus offer automatic equalization, room optimization, higher quality enclosures, drivers, and methods of speaker cone control. While these companies make a handsome product the majority of their extra cost is internal, design, and development. They will integrate with any speaker and last through system changes for years to come. If there's punch on the recording they'll punch and the only thing that will get spoiled is you.         
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