Zu Soul Superfly

I must admit I have become a little disappointed with this thread. As has been observed on another forum (Google it) this thread has become a little bit of a p•••••g contest. There is from an outsiders perspective the irony that there is a debate going on about attracting non-audiophiles into the tent whilst in the midst of s discussion almost guaranteed to put them off.

FWIW I do not consider myself an audiophile. My first system was based on ignorance and from reading reviews. I struck lucky with two thirds of it and five years later sorted the other third through making the same mistake. I now have source and amps sorted and simply need speakers that produce the best from it. Little I have read here beyond Phils description of the differences between Soul and Druid would make me consider the Soul.

The problem is perhaps that people see audiophile as something to aspire to. Ignorance is clearly not bliss but generally you find that people don't use their technical knowledge to solely their own benefit but to also engage in the aforesaid type of contest.

Describing people with 2k who don't care about ghe other stuff in the terms they've been described on here won't bring them into the camp. It'll do the exact opposite. The reality is that most who spend on audio do so for a myriad of reasons that are beyond classification. Insulting any of them is unhelpful.

I have been doing this for 20 years. I've spent 9 of them listening to music and maybe have some clue about what I'm talking about for the last three.

It kind of said it all on here that whilst you were all engaged in bot talking about the speaker it tool the manufacturer to point out to Gopher that an amp is not a priority at this stage.

Anyone want to talk about ghe Soul Superfly now? :)

Mike

My basic position is that Zu Soul is a "very big tent" speaker. A huge range of people can / will find satisfaction with it. I also take the position that with Zu FRD speakers, the most important decision after buying the speakers is the amp to drive them. This decision will drive the character of the system and it overwhelms room tweaking or anything else. It doesn't saddle the Soul buyer with a high expense -- there are many affordable amps that will sound good -- but anyone inclined to spend for extraordinary quality will find that Soul can fully take advantage of outstanding amplifiers.

Buy them for music, learn about hi-fi through what they can show you if you care to, regardless how much experience you bring to the transaction. If you don't care about the hi-fi aspects, you'll enjoy them anyway (perhaps more). Music enjoyment is the first objective. No one cares about imaging when out hearing a bar band, but jump factor and dynamics definitely count.

Phil

I agree with Mike, this thread seems to have been somewhat derailed.

From my perspective I took a punt on the Soul Superfly, being located at the arse end of the world it was really quite a big punt. Shipping cost alone was about $450 and another $300 on taxes once landed! So I don't really have the luxury of taking advantage of the 60 day return policy. Why did I take the punt, I've previously owned Zu cables and like the company philosophy, etc. Have long wanted to try their speakers and this was a great (albeit risky) opportunity.

I do care about sound and in an ideal world would love to optimise room placement, etc however in the real world with wife and children this is often not the case. Having bought them unheard and unseen, I appreciated comments from Phil on the unfussiness of the Soul. These will be a second system in a small spare room. With little flexibility on placement, I realise I might not get 100% from the speakers but life is about compromise. If Phil is right, real world speakers for real people. Am I an audiophile? Probably describe myself as aspiring audiophile but really want to get back to enjoying music and off the gear treadmill. I think the audiophile trap is getting to worried about the gear and forgetting about the music. I've enjoyed Gopher's and Phil's comments about SOul Superfly and look forward to more.

Personally, I have the opportunity to buy VTL Tiny Triode, early edition with red chassis and no ability to switch from triode to tetrode (that I am aware of) and that thinking was based on comments that EL84 would be a nice match for Soul. I already have (and will be using) a GTA 300B MkII Special Edition. Somewhere in the garage is a GTA SE-40 (uses 5881) which needs some TLC which I can also resurrect. Just wanted to keep my options open.

So like Mike, I'd like to read more about Soul Superfly ;)

Phil: I take sound-centric position, not gear centric position. Placement and room is how your low MF, upper bass, and bass will sound, regardless of amps. I also have not heard good results with some of the amps you recommend AND I disagree with your pre-amp suggestion.

Soul is "big tent" speaker but so is $500 polks. Frankly, I like them more than most hi-fi speakers costing 10x. But to each their own. $500 polk floorstander will sound better than plastic earbud when playing mp3

Mike: Soul is a mystery because so few people have heard them. We have Phil's description (which, despite fact Phil and I disagree on other things I am grateful for) and a happy customer in Gopher.

We can also only make comparison to Essence and Druid. Essence has similar FRD, but clearly it is very different as anechoic reading on Zu site for Soul is so different from same reading in stereophile for Essence. So even though they look the same, it seems they are quite different. Supertweeter is welcome return to Druid. Port loading is closer to Essence than Druid, but most different.

Based on just these, I cannot say soul is easier to setup than druid. With Druid you needed to care about port loading and toe in. Its very directional FRD meant you did not need to worry about first order reflection. With Soul you can forget about port loading, but supertweeter still needs toe in care and it has wider FRD, so now you need to care about first order reflection when before you didn't.

Keithr: Nothing silly about caring about sound and paying attention to room. What is silly is paying $1000 for cables and arguing about pre-amps while you have 120Hz suckout, left channel 5db louder than right, and massive timesmear. We listen to a combination of speakers + rooms and the industry has yet to create a speaker system that manages rooms in a truly easy way. It would be, I imagine, something with omni bass, plus very directional HF, plus some kind of automatic dEQ. I do not like dipole bass (which can get pretty omni) nor do I like dEQ, but this would be true "plop it down" system. Bose I imagine might have something like this but I have no interest in them either.

>>Placement and room is how your low MF, upper bass, and bass will sound, regardless of amps.<<

Nope, don't agree. Especially with tube amps the range of driver control has a large effect on the full spectrum of low-frequency sound. Lots of minor, non-audiophile ways to mitigate room behavior, but the amp/speaker interface is set and with Zu, no amount of room optimization will change the character imposed by the amp/FRD synergy (or not). With Zu, it overwhelms room factors as a first order priority and driver for what you'll hear.

>>We listen to a combination of speakers + rooms and the industry has yet to create a speaker system that manages rooms in a truly easy way. It would be, I imagine, something with omni bass, plus very directional HF, plus some kind of automatic dEQ. I do not like dipole bass (which can get pretty omni) nor do I like dEQ, but this would be true "plop it down" system. Bose I imagine might have something like this but I have no interest in them either.<<

No one hears music in a perfect room, not even the primary performance. I am close to the investors in Audyssey, and have heard their consumer, commercial and behind-the-scenes developments. They'll "correct" your room. Whether doing so sounds better is debatable. It's not that they don't make the corrections they claim to make, it's what they have to do to the original signal to make them.

I've heard treated rooms, "advanced" acoustics concert halls. All of it disappointing. Anyone old enough to have heard a performance in the allegedly "perfect" for its time Avery Fisher Hall? Despite referencing attributes of Symphony Hall in Boston, BBN hosed the sound. It never really got fixed.

Rooms have acoustic anomalies. They can be mitigated with minor adjustment and normal furnishings. If someone wants to go further, have at it. Not me. There's another way: live within the room. I want hi-fi out in the open living spaces. I want people to be able to relate to it in their own homes. Obsessive audiophilia is knifing hi-fi for a steady bleed-out. Do what you want to optimize your Superfly installation, but don't fear you can't get good sound if you don't. Wire them up; place them logically; start having fun. They work with anything from a $300 HK receiver to $25,000 SET amps to big McIntosh power. It's as worry-free as a speaker gets in 2010. Have fun.

Phil