Zu Soul Superfly

Phil: Yes -- audessey was what I was trying to remember. I don't know if they have well integrated with any reasonable price floorstander yet. Either way, I have not loved the sound of any dEQ system but this is matter of taste.

It is fine you don't agree about importance of room and placement. Enjoy playing with your amps and preamps. And cables.

Also, listing a bunch of incorrect room/hall treatments says nothing about correct room. There is no shortage of stupidty and consequently bad results in this world.

Curious_george: I think you made very good choice buying Soul speaker. I am very eager to learn what you think when they finally make it to you.

Also please, placement is something you can do more of or less of within constraints, just like everything else in audio. My druids too are in family room with two year old and newborn, they are not in dedicated mancave. (unfortunately).

But still, even within this very domestic environment, they are carefully setup to make most of sweet spot which is in particular spot on couch. And difference in quality has taken me from dissappointing sound to perfectly enjoyable sound. If I move from sweet spot, I get back to dissappointing sound but that is OK for me, it is not bad, just not what I had hoped for given buzz around Zu. So casual listening, speaker just play and I am doing whatever. Active listening, I must be in sweet spot. Sweet spot is only big enough for 1 btw.

Distance from corner and back wall (had to move them closer) improve base. Distance apart (had to move them closer) improve tonal density. Putting on wood base improve base over carpet. millimeter toe-in did wonders for sound stage and HF. Very careful measurement gave me equal SPL both channel, and equal distance from ear (again, millimeter level). My room eats bass, so had to add sub. Positioning that took hours. Then integrated it via careful phase, volume, and digital delay. Did not need first order reflection changes on top, left, and right because of topography for room and fleece blanket over table (easily removed) solved it for bottom.

So there you have it! It is not crazy "audiophile" mancave with zero WAF but perfectly ordinary looking living room with two speakers in them used every day. However, placement of everything is millimeter precise to optimize sound of system and it make big difference. It create tonal quality (which dies off axis in non-optimized spot) and it maximized dynamic (which I still don't love from very expensive Rotel ICE amp). More importantly for all of this, it was through placement that I learn about my system and sound it makes. If you want to understand "tone" then working to optimize for it will teach you more than 100 audigon forum posts.

I know exactly what strengths and weaknesses of my system are, I know exactly why it sounds like it does, and I know exactly what parts of sound are coming from room, coming from speaker, and coming from room/speaker interaction. Therefore, I know exactly what I need to do to improve sound. Gear alone will never give you this insight and knowledge into your own playback. Taking responsibiity of speaker/room interaction is first step of taking ownership over your own sound. It gets you off the gear train, which I personally have no interest in but other people seem to enjoy fetishizing (to each their own).

Avonessence: Looking forward to your review!

Naggots: It is the new FRD I am most interested in. My instinct is not to love wider dispersion but Zu knows what it is doing in FRD so I am very curious.

>>Enjoy playing with your amps and preamps. And cables.<<

Well, I've made no changes in preamps, amps or cables in five years, and that's for two complete Zu/SET systems. I did upgrade my Druids to 4-08 parts and I traded in my Definition 1.5s to get Def 2.0s, to get rid of the MDF cabinet glare in the earlier version. My turntables are 30 years old.

The positioning of my speakers in both systems has not changed since two hours after first installation. There are no room treatments other than the mitigation of normal household furnishings. Meanwhile, by far the best time I spent on audo outside of listening to music in the past 25 years was the solid week of investigation of coupling, isolation and general resonance control I was able to carve out last year.

Of several families of options, explored in combinations and in isolation, what came out on top? If you use a turntable, placing it on cones in turn resting on Aurios media bearings will be a revelation. The improvement exceeds any cartridge and tonearm upgrade I've ever done, by a wide margin. If you use a digital disc player, magnetic levitation (when space and low player weight render it feasible) drives more improvement than upgrading to a player 10X the price of the one you have. When the player is too heavy for that, go with Aurios Classic media bearings or similar. THESE were the vivid, dramatic improvements, once Zu speakers were in place.

Point is, by getting the amp/speaker combinations right, my systems have been quite stable in configuration as well as where I placed them. The one area of changeout has been digital players. The other area of interest prompting acquisition is analog, for which I indulge in more phono cartridges that I actually need.

A speaker designer and maker (not Zu in this case) visited me after I got Zu speakers and revamped my amplification. He looked at my systems and after registering his objections about having coffee tables in the listening area of each system, and lamenting the presence of flat panel TVs, he asked me how I arrived at my speaker placement. I told him the truth. I bought Zu shortly after moving into a new house. I looked at the rooms, and on visual assessment identified where the speakers would go both for best sound and functional compatibility with each room. I also showed him how far I'd moved the speakers from their initial position during the first hour listening. There was less than three inches of movement in any direction, from first plop down.

He said he was sure he could do much better if I'd allow him to. I marked the floor with masking tape to reference the original position and let him have at it. He was competent and he makes good speakers. We ended up back in the same spots, he admitting that I had already found the right and best locations for the rooms. Of course I knew this when I let him indulge his confidence. Now, I've been doing this for decades and have moved around a lot, faced with having to sort many rooms as a result. I also once worked in the business and sorted placement for many customers. But I've never found it even remotely difficult, time-consuming or esoteric in any way. Live with the room and appreciate its voicing. Tone is intrinsic to the gear or it's not there at all. You can get tone from a jail cell if the gear is toneful to begin with. Put another way, you can hear when a guitar player has achieved exceptional tone in acoustically unfavorable circumstances -- and they're almost all acoustically unfavorable. You can hear it walking down Sixth Street in Austin almost any night before you even enter a room. Zu speakers are like that. They have intrinsic tone under even the worst circumstances.

My time spent on hi-fi now is almost all music listening rather than gear futzing. Druids were easy for me to sort out, with respect to amplification. With Definitions I willingly ran through five months of experimentation before settling on 845 SET. After that, all set. Here's one thing you can count on: from the best sound you can get from your new Zu speakers in the first three days, everything will meaningfully improve for the next two years if you do nothing more than play music.

I've been spending my own money on hi-fi for 40 years now and the most significant thing about Zu speakers is that they arrested the search for better sound and eliminated the frustrations of audiophilia, with the result that I've bought more music in the last five years than in the prior 20. I think Soul will make this true for many others. Given its compact size, price, amp-friendliness and low-tweak set-up, after a single astute amp choice within your budget (or perhaps you already own one), music will regain its rightful claim on your money and time spent on audio.

Phil

I have followed this thread with interest . . . as the owner of a pair of Zu Definition 2s that I also consider a “big tent” speaker, albeit an expensive one.

I agree with Phil, there are many music lovers more than willing to spend 2-3k on a pair of musically satisfying speakers; I know that I am. I am talking about people who want good, involving music when they cook, eat, work, read, relax, play, walk about the house, visit with friends, etc. People who are willing to make real-world compromises to incorporate music into the rest of their lives, for whom aesthetics are important, and who need speakers that are modest in size and that can be placed where they integrate into their environment. Not people for whom the only acceptable audio experience is sitting in the middle of the sweet spot in a dead-quiet, isolated space, totally focused on the sound. And, no, mass-market hi-fi is not an adequate solution. It seems that Soul Superfly may fit this bill nicely . . . and at a reasonable price. (If Superfly had been available 3.5 years ago, I probably would have tried them first . . . and maybe last.)

I have found Zu’s direct market approach to be totally consumer-friendly. Whoever answers the phone at Zu is polite and helpful and knowledgeable and if unable to answer my question, quickly finds someone who can. When Ron Williams was in my neighborhood, he spent an hour tweaking my speakers' placement. And, yes, it did make a difference. This is the opposite experience that I have had at most B&M audio stores. However, while Zu stands by their 60 day home trial – something no B&M store has ever offered – packing and unpacking and shipping speakers of this size is not a cakewalk. What I do not understand is how Zu expects to reach the music lover with its current, direct-market approach. How can a music-loving consumer discover Zu when most audio stores have barely heard of them? The internet levels the playing field for small companies, but the consumer must still search . . . and sometimes search diligently.

I have also learned what Phil means when he says that Zu speakers shift the focus of the sound to the amplifier. Every amplifier that I have tried sounds very different on the Definitions. Not better or worst, but always different. (I should thank Phil for the time that he spent answering my questions and those of others on Audiogon and similar forums.) Like the Zu speakers, my current electronics have been chosen for their visual appeal and craftsmanship (works of art, really) and ease of integration into my environment . . . not just for their rich sound.

Gary

Putting basic room treatments is certainly better than the audiophile who has 10k+ in cables, vibration pods, racks, stones, rca caps, cd demag machines, power conditioning boxes, power cords, voltage machines, etc. unfortunately i know too many of these folks. and the basic laws of physics govern room acoustics, unlike the rather subjective laws around other audiophile obsessions. but we can agree to disagree.

and with current technology, the stuff can actually look good (which 10 years ago it didn't). check out Art Panels by several manufacturers, for instance. having a zillion tube traps isn't good looking---but custom bass traps are pretty invisible in any room. and a custom bass trap costs less than an interconnect these days!

and sure Avery Fischer Hall doesn't sound great---but Disney Hall and the Meyerson do sound pretty good imo.

Speaker, amp, room. keep it simple and it works. the Soul buyer isn't going to change there room, just like any other inexpensive speaker buyer. so at least get the amp right.

cheers,

KeithR

Nag, Im not sure what the upgrade will cost you, but have you considered selling your druids to fund souls? It may prove to be A larger, more cost effective upgrade.

Zanon, how big a difference was wood vs carpet? I have spikes coming from Zu, hopefully tomorrow but am wondering if I should just place it on some 13x13 mdf with the hard floor footers.