Imaging and the first violin(s)

Yes I have, especially with piano in either an orchestral arrangement or jazz trio, where location seems to fade between a hard lock and floating. I've non-chalantly attributed this to either an outcome of the final mixdown (maybe the engineer is trying to even out dynamics?), or same deficiency in my gear/room/ear interface.

I will say that I notice this distinctly less with DSD files from Native DSD. Could be coincidence.

Do you have any particular tracks where this effect is pronounced? I'd like to give them a try and see if we hesr the same thing.

Room acoustic treatments???


Usually I find that bad imaging is from poor room treatment and speaker placement.

Speakers:
Experiment with width and toe-in. If you point your speakers directly at your head, try pointing them straight, or having them cross in front of you. Latter is best for being near side walls.


Room acoustics:
The plane (x, y or z) in which you are suffering is the place to improve room acoustics. Height issues, add below and above (ruugs, ceiling). Width? Left and right. Depth? Front and back.  It may help to put a diffusor between the speakers, and try as experiments carpets or rugs / blankets behind and between your speakers, especially if that's where your rack is.

I agree on the importance of room treatments. My listening is comprised of about 90% classical (all types). I’ve never experienced the first violin or any individual instrument moving in the soundstage. Less defined, yes, depending on the mix.

Room treatments will define and shape the soundstage. I agree with Erik on all points.
In addition to position and toe-in, I’ll include rake angle of the speakers to help focus the image and position the soundstage.
In my room, using two absorbion panels on the front wall centered behind the speakers will lock-in the position of the instruments.

Can we assume you established a frame of reference by attending live performances of chamber music?

Well, in general I'm really happy with imaging in my set up  This is a specific problem, and it has persisted through different setups and other systems.  Nonetheless, it could certainly be the room, or aggravated by the room - I have limited scope for treatment as I maintain peace with my wife who, while a musician, has limited patience for visual concessions to audio.

I'm traveling now, but from memory, the Sequoia Quartet's recording of the Ravel Quartet.  Try the second movement (Assez Vif; Tres Rythme).  Lots of dynamics from all the pizzicato. The violin seems to come from the right channel periodically.  I think this is on both Qobuz and TIdal.

With quartets I never have trouble deciding whether the cello is on the outside or inside (they set up both ways) and most of the time I hear the violins on the left. It's just certain passages, often characterized by pizzicato or fortissimo playing.

Bill Charlap Trio - West Side Story.  Typically, and much like the rest of the jazz world) Bill sets up on the left, bass in the middle, and for trio drums on the right (as you face the stage, and yes I've seen him live a bunch of times).  The Piano seems to be in somewhat different places based on where he's playing in the registers. I get the same thing with some Joey Alexander recordings (whom I've also seen live set up the same way). 

The problem with studio creations is they could just as easily multi-miked the piano and centered it, which would create this effect, so it's harder to know what the intention was. Whereas quartets are usually in a performance space, although I've seen setups with both near-field mics and the typical double mic suspended above.

Thanks for the suggestions.