What percentage of audiophiles use a sub ?

Jax,

I had a similar situation. First I added 2 bassbusters. This had the effect of lowering the output in the 1/2 octave above your suckout. IME, part of the suckout is real and part is actually a function of the hump that often occurs just above this frequncy and extends up to 120hz or 150hz.

With 2 subs (crossed in the mid 70hz range), you can usually find a pretty smooth level match between the subs and the now "bassbusted" response at the bottom octave of the main speakers' (crossed and rolled off) range. DRC will allow you to address the smaller issues that occur (at least in my room) around 50hz and, if you wish, tailor response down in the deepest regions.

I use:

NHT x-2 to roll off bass in my mains
Velodyne SMS-1 to provide DRC via parametric EQ and to optimize integration with mains via the VERY flexible High Cut Filter integrated into the unit.
2 12" Rythmik subwoofers
2 bassbuster knockoffs from

The whole sub-woofin' enchilada ran just under $3000 (a fair bit more than the Ohm 100s I usually employ as my main speakers), but was - IMHO - a great investment. All products are available via money-back in-home trial period, so you might want to think about checking it out.

Good Luck

Marty

Yes, having a cello sound like a cello certainly does make sense, and in that case, a cello does sound more authentic to it's natural sound when (well-)augmented at the low end.

The lowest note on a cello is C2 which is about 65 Hz. That doesn't require a sub unless your recording has noises that include something other than from the bow on the strings.

The problem with many speakers is their response is ragged in this region due to room acoustics and speaker placement issues. Those issues can be addressed, but the answer isn't automatically a sub.

Yes, having a cello sound like a cello certainly does make sense, and in that case, a cello does sound more authentic to it's natural sound when (well-)augmented at the low end.

The lowest note on a cello is C2 which is about 65 Hz. That doesn't require a sub unless your recording has noises that include something other than from the bow on the strings.

The problem with many speakers is their response is ragged in this region due to room acoustics and speaker placement issues. Those issues can be addressed, but the answer isn't automatically a sub.

My case is a bit extraordinary in that my subs are integral to the speaker design and the speaker itself. The midrange driver handles above 100hz, and the integral subs are 10hz-100hz. So indeed the 65hz frequency of a cellos low notes is changed by turning my subs on and off. Previous to this I've integrated subs into my system crossed over much lower (in the 45hz range). There also, it seemed to make a difference to me in how the cello and instruments occured that reached similar lows that are NOT necessarily included in the spectrum covered by the sub. Sorry that I can't explain it beyond that, but that's what I recall hearing. I certainly admit that I could be influenced by expectations. The mind is a powerful thing.

My case is a bit extraordinary in that my subs are integral to the speaker design and the speaker itself. The midrange driver handles above 100hz, and the integral subs are 10hz-100hz. So indeed the 65hz frequency of a cellos low notes is changed by turning my subs on and off. Previous to this I've integrated subs into my system crossed over much lower (in the 45hz range). There also, it seemed to make a difference to me in how the cello and instruments occured that reached similar lows that are NOT necessarily included in the spectrum covered by the sub. Sorry that I can't explain it beyond that, but that's what I recall hearing. I certainly admit that I could be influenced by expectations. The mind is a powerful thing.

I don't know that your situation is "extraordinary" as there are a number of speaker systems that are designed from the ground up with a sub. However, I think the general gist of the discussion has been toward the question of adding subs to stand-alone speakers.

As for a lower crossover point, keep in mind that there is rarely a brick wall at a particular frequency. If your sub accurately crosses over at 45 Hz, it is almost certainly putting out a noticeable amount of sound one octave (90 Hz) and even two octaves (180 Hz) above the crossover point. The amount depends on the respective slopes of high and low pass filters involved for the speaker and sub respectively. (And, even if a sub crossover has extremely steep slopes, that in itself introduces another set of problems to deal with.)

I sold stereos back in the days when most amps had tone controls and it was extraordinarily rare to find a customer who did not like the change in sound that came from nudging the bass and treble controls up to 1 or 2 o'clock.

Whether or not this is the effect you're experiencing is hard to tell unless you can compare your system side-by-side with a live cello (to continue the example in use) or perhaps use some RTA analysis of your room response with each configuration.

Ultimately, your only question is "are you satisfied?"

BTW, Jax,

You asked about room position and the 80hz suckout. My understanding is that this response dip is usually due to 1/4 wave cancellation and is a function of the speakers' distance from adjacent walls. Subs can be placed flush to the wall which increases the frequency of the cancellation and reduces the severity of the effect - usually making it fairly benign. So unless you're willing to put your full range speakers right against the wall, changing the speakers' placement within the room is unlikely to do the trick.

Marty