Upgrading sub to get a live feel.

Sure, swarms are nice, but not everyone can afford or has the space for them.

The Swarm is not expensive as subwoofers go, and if space is an issue, the Swarm is often an excellent solution, as the actual boxes are small and easy to place since they are specifically intended to operate in the room boundaries, i.e. against the wall.

Another aspect about them is they are only meant to go up to 80Hz. At and below this frequency, bass is omnidirectional (its *harmonics* above 80Hz that impart location information to bass instruments). Part of this is that it simply takes a while for the ear to detect bass at these frequencies- by the time its done so, the bass waveform has traveled a distance longer than most people's rooms!

**So especially if space is at a premium** the Swarm is an excellent option. We are seeing a lot of our older customers going into smaller rooms and otherwise downsized living situations- this is an excellent means of not having to sacrifice musical enjoyment just because the listening room got smaller.

@mcreyn, wow really good post. I'm actually restoring my '84 911 and was thinking of adding a car stereo system, but always wondered if I could ever get something that would sound close to what I get in my home system. I have to admit I am a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to car audio, but you have now sparked my interest to research this further.

On the home front my room is somewhat small, 20' x 12', and I have used a version of the swarm for the last few years that was inspired by some work Roger Modjeski at Music Reference was doing and the way in which he designed and ran his ESL speakers. I don't play loud, under 80 dB, no home theater, and most of the music I listen to doesn't have anything that extends below 30 Hz. I'm now upgrading the woofers to 10" housed in sealed boxes, and thanks to mijostyn who has posted on a few of these threads I have rearranged my swarm to be what he refers to as a line source bass array. We both use Acoustant speakers (his 2+2, mine Model 2) so his experience was helpful. In addition to my panels, I use a Beveridge RM3 crossover with 4th order 24 dB slopes for high and low pass, and biamp. I've been really pleased with the results so far and I'm looking forward to hearing what the upgrade brings.

Your experience though has me thinking about some other options for the future. In some ways perhaps active subs might be more beneficial for my next listening room. Rythmik is on my radar, but would be curious to know more about your setup and some pointers about using multiple active subs.

clio09,

For car stuff, I find simple is great. Check out CDT, Hertz, and Diamond Audio for components. For subs, Image Dynamics work well. For a car the size of a 911, an 8" will just cut it, a 10" if you can fit it. You can use speakerboxlite for free on an IOS device to model drivers in enclosures. Sealed works best in a car unless you are looking for max SPL.

Regarding your setup. Given your listening levels, you are not likely to be running into compression or high distortion levels. I will caution you with using sealed subs in a home environment, you will likely need to eq to compensate for roll off in excess of room gain. BTW, loved those Acoustats, remember hearing them driven with a Hafler front end (XL-600). Now I am giving away my age.

Sealed Rythmiks are an experience. The only way I can describe them is slightly dry, very clean, and great impact. In my office, I use their base L12 with a paper driver, which is slightly tighter and cleaner sounding than the HGS-12 it replaced.  In my main system, I used an F15HP, which is significantly tighter and cleaner sounding than the two HGS-12s it replaced, and crushes them in output).   Don’t tell Noble, but I am only using one right now in my main setup (after using two subs for a couple of decades). There is a second on the horizon, but my listening room has little in the way of standing wave issues at my listening position. This is driven in part by its large irregular shape (21 feet long, 13 feet wide for part, 19 feet in part, a ceiling that goes from 9 feet to 18 feet, and two large openings to other rooms). As a result, I have one dominate mode in the 40hz range that is easily addressed with a single band parametric eq. Two will provide a more even response, but some additional headroom (which is needed, as a certain wife has bottomed the Rythmik when in control of the volume, music, drinks and dancing).

As far as setup, lots of trial and error with REW and moving the sub (subs before) around and playing with phasing, cross-over, and PEQ. I have tried a Mini DSP after the crossover and did not like the results (but it could be I am not savvy enough with the setup). When I say trial and error, I probably ran 200 sweeps before I got everything dialed in. REW is a gift compared to doing it with a CD with tones, an SPL meter and graph paper or a spreadsheet. Well worth the cost of the UMIK ($100) and the learning curve.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com

Two RELS

@mcreyn, yeah Tim was interesting at first, but now it's gotten pretty old. I am a fan of Duke LeJeune's speakers having owned the Jazz Modules before finding ESL nirvana. So when he developed his Swarm I had always intended to give it a go, until I started working with Roger Modjeski and he convinced me to go down a different path. Either way it would have worked out well.

The active crossover is EQed and my Acoustats have been modified. Of the two panels in each speaker, one is actually Roger's ESL panel. They have also been modified to use the Acoustat direct drive amps. So no interfaces.

Thanks for the tip on the car system and software. I'll look into it further.