New home theater setup

Avgoround,

You are wrong. The AVR-600 WILL beat most seperates. Will it beat the Krell amp, or Anthom, I really don't know. If you care to believe what a reviewer says, yes, Peter Moncrieff, in widescreen review, said it was THE BEST sound he has ever heard, at any price. So I guess he would trade his seperates for it. He used 7 B&W 802's in his review. You are not speaking from experiance on this. I drove a pair of ProAc response 3's in my own room at home. Also drove 2 pair of Dahlquist, PSB platinum T6's, Sinclair 460T towers, and several others. (All of which are my own speakers) Your ASSUMPTION that this will only drive small monitors is totally wrong. I'm not saying this is the "holy grail" of audio. I will say that it out performed a Sunfire signature, and a Sunfire 300 for stereo, that's 2 channel, music only. (Also my own amps) We sold Sunfire for many years. When I replied to the OP, I was compairing it to the likes of his Yamaha. (I'm also a dealer for them by the way) We have sold almost everything out there. I have owned Lexicon in my own home, Sony, Yamaha, Harmon, Denon, Adcom, Parasound, NAD, Hafler, Belles, and several others. We have sold, or do sell, all of those. (along with countless others) Do I believe everything that Peter said in his review? No. My current Arcam seperate sytem at home is better than the 600 was. The big Arcam amp has a little, and I do mean little, better hold on my speakers. Mainly better bass response. (it's also twice the price) Your comments sound, and read, like someone that knows what they are talking about. I know better, because I have actually listened to them side by side. I now know you haven't. I'm not talking about the latest codecs for HT, that's a whole different thing. That's why I said 2 channel. I'm a Krell fan, as well as Classe, Theta, and many others. I can't say the 600 would beat them out, I simply don't know. As I said, I'm a seperates guy at heart. My gut feeling is I would prefer the really high end seperate system. Your comment that those cheap amps would beat out a 600 is crazy. You don't know that.(I do)I'm willing to open one up, and compare it to what you have anytime. I'd be willing to bet you can't show up here with seperates that are anywhere near the price, and beat a 600. End of rant.

Hey you don't happen to be a rep for Arcam, are you Zydo? I'm just checking
Zydo, I think that's wonderful that you enjoy(ed?) the Arcam. I sold Arcam for over 2 years from 2000-2002, in a High end Esoterica Audio Video salon, that sold 150K/pr speakers and 50K mono blocks! The Arcam makes great higher end mid-fi, entry hi-end Audio Equipment, yes. I like their products. I am also very familiar with their story, and their products, by enlarge. I also sold that Arcam line along with the likes of Aragon, Krell, Theta, Pass Labs, Audio Research, VTL, Wadia, Audible Illusions, Koda, and a lot more! The Aracam is not what your reviews are trying to sell, I am most certain! But then that comes from over 20 years with litterally 1000's of hours of hands on experience with some of the best audio equipment in the world, and from spending time with the same industry reviewers you are refering to!

".. If you care to believe what a reviewer says, yes, Peter Moncrieff, in widescreen review, said it was THE BEST sound he has ever heard, at any price. So I guess he would trade his seperates for it." *(Zydo)

Zydo, NO I do not believe what any reviewer says! And the Arcam 600 is will not replace a good separates system, accross the board. Any industry professional experienced audiophile in this industry, who knows anything, will agree with that position too! A receiver is simply an all-in-one box compromise, that's got a lot of audiophile tweaks done to the unit. It's not going to replace what better components where designed to do. I'm sorry.
REVIEWERS WRITE REVIEWS WITH AN AGENDA, AND FROM INCENTIVES FROM MANUFACTERERS..BELIEVE IT!! And if you doubt for one second that reviewers don't write OVERLY glowing reiews, because they're getting offered incentives and perks you're kidding your self! (if you owned an audio products company, and wanted to garantee a great review -to sell the most products you could - YOU MOST DEFINITELY WOULD BE TAKING CARE OF ANY REVIEWER WHO WAS WRITING YOUR REVIEW! ..that's life, and that's business).
You can say all like about how the AVR600 replaces all other audio equipment -so we can all stop looking, and all others can just go out of business now, cause Arcam is the only product to have - but I, and most every other audiophile industry person know better! And I don't have some tin ear,either! I can't tell you how many years I've read OVERLY GLOWING REVIEWS in Stereophile, Home Theater, Ultimate AV, AV Interiors, etc, where they put some $250/pr speakers in "Class B" or some AV receiver as class AAA (Ultimate AV), and I LAUGH!! Then, a year or two later that same products slips down to class C or D, and so on. IT'S ALL ABOUT SELLING PRODUCT PEOPLE! Haven't you ever noticed that Definitive Tech and Paradigm are always reviewed as the greatest loudspeakers in existence! (with reviews saying "best speakers I know of", or "you'll get no better sound than these", and so forth? Yeah, and all these years, reviewers have been trying to get us to believe that some Denon flagship AV receiver, or Bryston amps, Lexixon Processors, or Definitive Technology loud speakers were the best you could buy, Class A stereophile rated products! Well that's not been the case either, and neither is it the case with your receiver, no boubt.
When the Arcam 100, then 200, then 300, came out, those were otherwise excellent AV receiver were ALSO touted as being the greatest things sinced sliced bread too! I had them in my store, side by side with better products, and those Arcam's couldn't compete then, and they can't can't compete now. I assure you!
You cannot simply believe everything you're reading, especially when they come out and say "it's/they're the best ever!" or, "Nothing else even compares!.. so go out and buy it now!" -YOU SHOULD RUN FOR THE HILLS!! Cause they just got $100k and a free complete system, to go write those words in that review, and then they went right out and put a down payment on a house with that money! HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS BUSINESS, AND TIME AS WE KNOW IT IN THIS INDUSTRY!!!! I know far too many people, and been around too many years in this industry to know different. Sorry
Yeah, I put about as much credit on an audio review, as I do in Consumer Reports! But, hey, maybe to you it is the best. So I'm glad your happy. Just don't try to sell me on how Arcam is all I'll ever need to drive my Electa Amator's, cause i already know it can't drive em, and isn't strong enough as good separates, let alone refined enough. PPLLLLLLEEEEEASE!

I'm sorry. I missed that! DID SOMEONE JUST CHALLENGE ME TO AN AUDIO SYSTEM THROW DOWN?! LOL! That is funny. Yeah, let me just throw my audio system in a car and make the trip! LOl!
I'm sorry, but I apparently missed the last part of your CHALLENGE, Zydo! BBUUAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow. that has to be THE BEST response comment I've heard on this forum in a long long time! Lol lol lol ..Good suff, indeed. And, NO, the Arcam will never ever ever be able to do full justice to my very power hungry Electa Amators, nor some Appogies, or other full range 4ohm difficult load speakers. IT'S A RECEIVER! Albeit a nice one for what is is, admittedly.
Zydo, you didn't quantify what kind of music, source material, and also how you set up your system (crossed over as small?), and how loud you play your system! All that makes a difference - especially if you only listen to small instrumental cuts, light chamber music, and vocals, all played at "mouse" volume levels?
Are we driving those larger speakers full range with heavy volume, full scale orchestra, rock, heavy rap/world, metal, or heavy percussive pieces? How about Dolby Movies cranked up? Cause all that makes a huge difference as to whether your Arcam amps can handle the current, big time! It sounds to me like we might be dealing with an opinionated Norah Johnes, Dianna Krall, James Taylor guy, who likes small commedy movie pieces, and maybe Docummentaries, yes? I'm assuming no Metalica, Massive Attack, Floyd, Bob Marley, or Block buster Avengers movies at THX levels? Just curious.
Well anyway, if I could drag a system over to compare the Arcam (again, I know their products well enough) , I'd merely bring over some budget separates setup, like a modest used Harman Kardon AVR354 ($175 used market) receiver, driving out to a parasound HCA1205a ($400 on used market), THAT WOULD BLOW THE DOORS OFF YOUR RECEIVER IN FULL RANGE OPERATION, I'M CERTAIN!...and save a heck of a lot of money in the process! You bet!
My motto is never ever ever spend more than $1000 on some AV receiver, which will be mostly outdated and nearly obsolete in the near future! I always say, anyway.
Put the money into the speakers, first and foremost for the gear! $6000 for A receiver? BBUUAUAAHAHAHAHAH! ...NO! DON'T DO IT! Peace

Av, you really have blown my comments out of proportion.

-My first response to the OP was to add an amp to his set-up.
-I also said I didn't believe everything I read in Peters review. You said "nobody would trade their high end seperates for a recvr" I simply gave you an example of someone that went on the record saying basically just that.
-I also never said it would drive any and every speaker out there. You said it is fine for small bookshelves. I disagree, and gave you examples I had used when I had the 600.
-I also said it isn't a cheap alternative.
-I also said I'm a seperates guy myself, and that my current seperates are better. The 66 was better than my Sunfire seperates, and my Lexicon. The lexicon was quite some time ago however.
-I also said it's not the holy grail of audio.
-I listen at all different volumes, and play a pretty wide range of music. (Yes, Metallica, Floyd, Megadeth) All CD's or DVD's. Classic rock, jazz (both new and classic) Blues. VERY little rap of any kind. No dance or country. Concert DVD's are usually played quite loud. And yes, I play many, many movies of all sorts at different volume, depending on my mood, or the movie.

Your budget system you mentioned won't beat the 600 though. I would be more than willing to give you the chance with it however. And it is as good as average seperates any day. (to me, thats most of them) The old Arcam recvrs you mentioned are not the same thing. Have you even actually listened to a 600, or, are you just assuming?

Av and Zy, when you consider the subjectivity and component synergy that confronts people in this hobby, let alone what the OP is considering, then to a large degree you're guys are both correct. You are also both making a few generalities that seems to be the reason for your disagreement. In any event you're both providing information to the OP.

I auditioned an earlier version of the Arcam and it did sound better than the other receivers I was considering but its feature set was stunningly lacking. It was also a model that I later learned had some reliability issues. I've become quite content with a receiver running my HT only system. Compared to the fidelity of my two channel system it's a joke as are most HT systems. Even so, the room correction, modern codecs, and a massive sub, make my HT very entertaining.

Just how Arcam compares to separate multi-channel power amplifiers is, again, subjective at best. Depending on speaker selection I would agree its almost a given that adding an outboard amp will be an improvement over a receiver. At the same time I've heard some real crapy multi channel amps.