garrard vs clearaudio innovation

My fathers Rek O Kut Turntable not only rumbled but it fed back like crazy. On the HH Scott Preamp the rumble filter was always turned on.
He had a custom cabinet made for the whole system and looking back the turntable was mounted poorly. It looked nice though and was hidden under a hinged cover. The end result was that he got a bunch of prerecorded tapes and listened mostly to his Ampex and what a wonderful machine that was. Instead of scratches you got hiss. No dolby back then and the prerecorded tapes ran at 7.5 ips. Other than that the sound was wonderful. I was in charge of demagnetizing it once a month.
Anyway, many modern subwoofers have room correction with equalization to push the driver as low as feasible. If there is any noise below 30 Hz it can get magnified as much as 10 dB. So you can see what turntable rumble might cause. My system is digitally rolled off at 80 dB/Oct below 18  Hz. If I remove the filter and play a dead groove the woofers will flap a bit even with the SOTA. When I turn the filter on the woofers go almost dead in the water. 
Uberwaltz, if you can look closely at your woofer membrane and play a dead groove with the volume up you will see it flapping back and forth. Shine a flashlight in there! I've never seen one strike the magnets but I suppose with enough power it could happen. Anyway because the Maggie is a dipole it has a lot of trouble producing sound below 30 Hz. It just cancels out. But the membrane is still flapping which is why I really like to see subwoofers and high pass filters used with Maggies. You have to use two subs and cross at 100 Hz or even a little above. I have used JL Audio Subs under Maggies with great results. Of course if you only listen to digital files none of this matters but then what are you doing on this thread:)
Lewm I think you are basically right about wasted energy and distortion.
You can make a bunch of improvements to those old tables and they are serious metal having been designed for commercial use but you still have two more bearings, the idler wheel itself and the capstan mechanically connected to the platter. In a belt drive you only have the spindle. Even assuming that all the mechanical part were as good as reasonably attainable the idler wheel table is still going to make more noise than an equally machined belt drive. Can you make an idler wheel table quiet enough to function well with corrected sub woofers? I don not know. I can only say that I have not seen it done yet but it is not impossible but probably very expensive:) 

I had a Clearaudio Innovation on a cheap rack (Lovan) on suspended wood floor (but much more sturdy than that of a typical residence, which are impossibly flimsy), and I would experience nasty woofer flapping at times. It was very easy to see on my Tannoy’s big 15" drivers. I upgraded to a high-end rack (CMS Maxxum) and Clearaudio Master Innovation at the same time. No visible woofer flapping at all since then, not even a tiny bit. No more feedback issues of any kind. I listen at loud volumes, too. Sounds wonderful. I think these Clearaudio tables are capable of being extraordinarily quiet, but you must provide them a proper platform.

I'm also on the Garrard train, 301 in my case but, i have not had issues with rumble at all. I think like others have said it depends on the table you get and what your prepared to do to it to make it legendary. 

The Clearaudio is going to be a drop down set up and forget table the Garrard is going to require maintenance and updating to make it epic but if you take the time and money it will be much better then the innovation.  It's just how much time and money are you willing to put in to get to the holy grail of rim drive , think Shido here and the $30k Garrard. 

The ClearAudio will be the same for ever (maybe minor upgrades) the Garrard has a clear upgrade path if that's something your into. 

Also the Garrard's are only getting older but still sought after how many other 50+ year old tables get $2k plus for a basic table that needs a refurb.   

To me it boils down to easy or hard. easy ClearAudio, hard Garrard. hard things in life always seem better in the end, maybe, are you willing to put in the effort. 

Glen.

Glen and just how will the Garrard be "much better" than the Clearaudio which not only is a belt drive but also has a magnetic bearing. It certainly is not going to be better on the rumble front. If you put the same tonearm and cartridge on both tables convince me that the Garrard is "much better."
Mulveling, my point exactly. Any fixed, un-suspended turntable needs a firm footing from the floor up. If you have it great, you have much more choice in fine tables if not a suspended table is mandatory for trouble free high performance.

I’m not a fan of belt driven turntables.  I have a 301 in a walnut plinth, and the 301 sits on springs in the plinth.  Similar to my modified Dual 1229.  I also had a EMT 927 which is the best table I’ve ever heard period.   Never any feed back or woofer dance with any of these tables.

Properly set up, I would run with the 401.  It’s actually a better table then the 301, and because it is idler driven, it will have more pace and power musically speaking.  

Bur with any of us, it’s really up to what YOU like, what YOU enjoy.
You may prefer the Clearaudio, and if so that is what you should buy.

You will always turn a profit on the 401.  They are in high demand.  In five years time your Clearaudio will be worth a fraction of what you paid. Something to factor in.