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Phono Preamp Tube Rush

Is there such a thing as a tube phono stage that doesn't have tube rush? Is it just an inherent weakness of that type of pre or is it some combination of cartridge gain and preamp gain? I went from a silent solid state ASR Basis Exclusive to a Herron VTPH-2A (new home with space limitations) and now I'm using a Hagerman Trumpet with my Decca London Super Gold. Both the Herron and Hagerman have tube rush. The Hagerman beats the Herron in my setup and it really sounds incredible but in quiet passages and between songs, there's that hiss at high-medium and high volume. It's just there. No combination of new tubes, new cables, etc changes this fact. Same with the Herron. Anyone having a different experience with a tube phono preamp?
dhcod
dhcod OP
710 posts
 
FYI, When I had my VTPH-2a I noticed no difference in noise between the lowest noise new stock tubes and NOS telefunen 12ax7s and Mazda 12 AT7s. I had the version with the 2 12ax7s and 3 12AT7s. I loved this unit and compared it to a few others that were more expensive and it always won out. When I went with the Decca cartridge though, the Trumpet was doing all the same stuff but with some noticeably extra depth in the sound stage so I made a change. Keith Herron is the best. I still have his line stage and amps.
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edwyun
244 posts
 
@ three_easy_payments

I agree. The VTPH-2A is a very highly regarded and designed unit. Even way above its price point. And very musical. There is unanimity on that.

As for tubes, I eventually found a set of 12AX7 EH tubes that tested and sounded better than the ones I had. It did make a difference. But then I found some NOS Ei tubes and they were even quieter.  I'm using the 12AX7 Ei in V1 and V1 and 12AT7 Ei in V5.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
dhcod, It would take a severely defective tube to cause a 25% decrease in sound quality. I have not used a 12AX7 unit since 1965 and a Dyna PAS 3X but with 6922's the only significant difference between tubes is noise which is much easier to quantify than sound quality. Whatever differences there are in sound quality are marginal at best but having all kinds of crap going on in the background of quiet passages is annoying. I suppose if you only listen to Metal it does not make a difference and besides the tube with those gold pins must sound better. 
bigkidz
3,397 posts
 
@three_easy_payments - I thought my post was very clear in that the phono stages mentioned may sound great but if the unit has noise then IMO something is not correct.  Why would I buy anything that had noise?  Like I said, these products may sound great but the designer did not take the time to design the unit to eliminate the noise so IMO that is a compromise in the design, maybe to make something at a price point possibly.  I don't use 6922/6DJ8 in my phono stage either.  The 12AX7 tubes work better in that application.  Happy Listening.
lubachl
95 posts
 
If you prefer tubes and have a low output moving coil it is best to use a solid state phono pre and employ tubes in the downstream electronics.  My recommendation would be to go with Nagra BPS.  It has high enough gain for low output MCs, runs off a 9 volt battery, is dead quiet and sounds fantastic.
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