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The order of getting more/better bass

Say you have a nice 2-way speaker system. Maybe you are starting in your hobby, and maybe you have decided the bottom octaves are a place to improve.  What next? Here's my perspective as a long term audiophile and DIY speaker builder and tinkerer who has lived with and tried a number of solutions.

To be clear: 2 way speakers are generally lot easier to live with than conventional 3-way speakers.  Why? The lack of bass makes them more room friendly and unlikely to cause issues.

So, what should you do? In general, I suggest before moving onto bigger speakers to go through this list:

1 - Get good room treatment, especially bass traps. This doesn't always work, but I have found that often flattening the bass makes smaller speakers sound a lot larger. You may be done here.

2 - Add a subwoofer with great EQ.

And here is where your options kind of explode. The EQ can be before the DAC (miniDSP), built into your pre/integrated (Anthem/Lyngdorf/T+A/etc.) or subwoofer only.  Sometimes this is even part of the speaker with Vandersteen and others offering powered subs with built in EQ as part of the speaker.

To me, the difference here is how much control you want over your DAC and the purity of the signal. A sub only EQ is limited in how much it can fix as well as how much it can break.

I want to point out that not all room correction/auto EQ is the same. It is critically important you audition before purchasing, as ultimately the choices made, and target curves, are not at all equivalent.

3 - Add a second (or more) subwoofer

This is of course great if you lack output, but to actually fix issues you have to have a great deal of flexibility in how you place the subs. If your sub is loud and deep, but you have no control over where they go they will not help you compensate for each other. 
Properly set up/calibrated a satellite/subwoofer set up is glorious. In 90% of living rooms I'd put a good 2way/sub combo up against almost any large floor stander and beat them. However, honestly, the proper set up part is a lot harder than it sounds.

What are your tips for the starter audiophile who wants to improve the bottom end?

Best,

Erik
erik_squires
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Pardon my concentration. The infinite bass line source limits reflected energy from all surfaces except the ceiling and rear wall.
stereo5's avatar
stereo5
6,385 posts
 
If you want to fill a large room with quality sound that you can play at a decent level, a 2 way stand mount speaker system with a sub or two will not cut it. Been there, done that. While you can convince yourself it is good, there is much better. Erik always mentions DIY, but many of us aren’t interested in that. It’s funny that all the BEST speaker systems are not 2 way speakers with subs. Just why is that Erik? Did you ever hear or read about the laws of physics? Those 2 way speakers will chug and distort when pressed to play loudly.

While the 2 way speakers and subs may play Jazz and Chamber Music well, a full blown symphony orchestra playing something like 1812 Overture or say some Pink Floyd will sound 100% better on a large floor standing speaker system. I don’t have a dedicated room for my main rig and I do not need room treatment like bass traps. My couch takes care of that plus all the other furniture in the room, plus the drapes, wall hangings, etc. Why would anyone want an equalizer in a high end system, that is nothing more than a band aid.

Doug Schroeder is correct in his post. I trust him much more than the O P as he has been in the industry for many years and has heard and reviewed many types of set ups. Erik, I hope my answer meets your criteria of an honest answer, weather you agree or not.
andy2
1,549 posts
 
My first tip for beginning enthusiasts would be to totally ignore your original post!

  Typical, poorly thought through, poor advice

 I amazes me how some people can possess such ability to insult other people.
erik_squires OP
16,056 posts
 
If you want to fill a large room with quality sound that you can play at a decent level, a 2 way stand mount speaker system with a sub or two will not cut it.
Please re-read my very first sentence, and pay careful attention to the audience I meant this post for.  Here, so it's not too hard, I'll repost it below:

Say you have a nice 2-way speaker system. Maybe you are starting in your hobby, and maybe you have decided the bottom octaves are a place to improve. What next?

So, this was not a post for those who can afford a home, build a custom listening room and whose rooms are designed or altered for large speakers.

Erik always mentions DIY,


Provably false statement. 

but many of us aren’t interested in that.


OK, but not sure what that has to do with anything in this thread.  Are your feelings hurt that I didn't post this about how to be an audiophile if you don't want to or can't buy the largest possible speakers and equipment?


It’s funny that all the BEST speaker systems are not 2 way speakers with subs. Just why is that Erik? Did you ever hear or read about the laws of physics? Those 2 way speakers will chug and distort when pressed to play loudly.

The laws of physics, measurement tools, and my own ears tell me that large speakers often sound like crap in the wrong room. Why do you think so many high end 2-way monitors are sold in the US?

What is on the cover of Stereophile or TAS after they've bought 30 full size glossy ads is probably not going to sound good in the beginning audiophile's listening room.  So, sure, pick out some $30,000 / 500 lb speaker and I can find plenty of places in which most of them would sound like utter crap and I could put a better 2-way with sub in, with some very noticeable and clever exceptions. :)

Best,

E

erik_squires OP
16,056 posts
 
Here is a challenge:

Given a modest living room, say 12’ x 20’ x 8-10’ ceilings. Audiophile has a 2-way speaker system he really likes but now she/he would like more bass.

What would you recommend instead of my suggestions,

@douglas_schroeder , @jsautter , @stereo5 ?

Show us your mettle.

Best,

E
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