Jazz for aficionados

Just a quick note on the "Jazz at the Pawnshop" album mentioned earlier. The album might well be the best live recording I have ever heard...listening to it makes you feel like you're 10 feet from the stage in the club where it was recorded. Absolutely stunning recording perfection. Thank you to the member who put it at the top of his/her list earlier.

geoffkait,

They did not lose half their planes in the BoB.

Attacking Russia, as I stated in my original post, was their biggest mistake. For all intents and purposes Germany lost the war on 22 June 1941 although it took 4 more years.


The original post was about the fighting ability of soldiers. To make it simple I will try another approach.


The Russians lost approximately 4.5 million men from 22 June through December 31 1941. The Germans, in the same period, lost approximately 1 million. Those figures are for KIA, MIA, POW, and wounded. This is a ratio of 4.5:1 in Germany’s favor. Adolf Hitler had predicted that Russia would fold and Germany would win by the end of September. Adolf Hitler was wrong. He and his intelligence staff underestimated the Soviet Unions strength in man power and industrial capacity.

The Soviet Union continued to "grow" army’s and stack them in front of the Germans. They also moved their armament factories beyond the Volga River near the Urals and out of reach of German bombers. In short the Russians ability to replace lost men and equipment far exceeded what the Germans were capable of.

The Germans also had to replace their losses on 2 fronts against the 3 of the largest world powers starting in July 1943 when the Anglo Americans landed in Italy (the Italians surrendered which did not help) and a year later when they landed in France. They simply could not do this.

Soldier for soldier the Germans tactical and operational prowess was unmatched by the Russians, Brits, and the Americans but their endless supplies of manpower and resources was, in the long run, far to much for the Germans to succeed. In short the Germans were overwhelmed by the brute force of these 3 world super powers and their resources of men and material.

We all are in debt to the Soviet Union which bore the brunt of the full might of the German Army and bled them white before we landed on Normandy on 6 June 1944 to open the second front.

You are quibbling. 

“More than 1700 Luftwaffe (German air force) planes were destroyed. The 2662 German casualties included many experienced aircrew, and the Luftwaffe never fully recovered from the reverse it suffered in August-October 1940. The Royal Air Force (RAF) lost 1250 aircraft, including 1017 fighters.”

That was the turning point.

Pjw and Rok, you guys are concerned about "welfare cheats" but find 700 billion of your money, our money going to Wall Street OK. That sounds backwards to me. I say you both have been programmed to think positive for the rich and negative for the poor; you look down on the poor, but admire the rich swindlers, the "flim flam" men.

New BMW's can cost from 50 to 100,000; I don't know which one's you saw, but I "double dog" guarantee you they did not belong to a welfare recipient. While you saw them in that neighborhood, and it's possible to have seen a Lamborghini in that neighborhood, it didn't belong to a "welfare recipient",  a dope dealer most likely; he's someone who couldn't make it on Wall Street and chose the Black mans path to riches.

He sells dope to the people who can't cope with the insanity in the ghetto that is the direct result of "economic racism" in this country; poverty that has been passed down for centuries from one generation to the next. Now lower middle class white people (the real middle class is more affluent and less racist) have someone to look down on and feel superior to.

BoB was NOT the turning point and the UK could never have defeated Germany alone. The Brits were in no way capable, in the fall of 1940, to invade northwest Europe so they panned and carried out bombing rins over Germany which was a dismal failure.


In the 10 raids bomber command launched against Berlin between June and November 1941, 133 Germans were killed compared with casualties in the RAF of 3 times that much. At the same time British aircraft losses in 1941, mostly bombers, were more then double those in 1940 - (1,034 vs 492)