Does raising speaker cables off the floor really make a big difference?

nonoise,

You have again missed the point.  Clearly the issue here as been the contrast between those who stick to a purely "subjective" paradigm where one's own subjective assessment is the ultimate arbiter of any audio claim, vs those who hold some suspicion of that sole approach, and who also look to objective evidence for claims as well as acknowledging the usefulness of controls like blind testing.


You seem to remain stubbornly in the former camp.

I did so when it comes to fuses. After my experience with different brands on my previous integrated, it was apparent that they made a difference. With my latest integrated, I went in "knowing" it would and much to my surprise, they didn't. In fact, the one that came with it sounded the best.
As for raising cables, as I've already stated, I've never heard that big a difference, if any, all those years ago. It was only from reading this thread that I thought I'd try it and the difference was plainly evident, and much for the better.

So, in other words, to my question as to whether you ever went outside your own subjective "bubble" the answer is "no."   You've simply stuck to exactly the same paradigm where your own subjectivity will trump anything else.


Whereas I have used the subjectivist paradigm and also pushed myself outside of it to question my own beliefs and perceptions, by trying blind testing, and acknowledging the technical arguments against some of the claims made in high end audio.


You seem stuck in a subjectivist bubble unwilling to challenge your own paradigm, but like to pretend that the "naysayers" are the ones stuck in a bubble.  

As for the tangental, metaphysical argument of do I really hear what I think I'm hearing malarkey, don't go there.

At your command!  Wouldn't want to challenge your bubble.

I've seen you do this to others as of late which I found a bit distasteful and led me to contribute less as a result.

Sure, you have no qualms about describing those you disagree with as exhibiting "projection" and "bias" and going to ridiculous lengths to stay in their "bubble."


But should anyone challenge your critique with arguments against it, well....you get all sensitive and "don't go there" and consider this "browbeating."  



This thread is asking if raising cables of the floor REALLY makes a big difference.  This is a public forum, not a church.  You will get different opinions on the subject, and people will give their reasons for their opinions.  I'm happy to hear your views, none of which have made me cringe away from wanting to post because they challenge my own opinions.


If you are so sensitive in the face of encountering opinions that may be at odds with what you hold to be personally sacred in audio, you may wish to grow a thicker skin and re-calibrate your expectations for public discussions.  Otherwise, you'll probably just keep producing more straw-man critiques in an effort to protect your bubble.


And if you enjoy playing with fuses, power cables etc, :  Enjoy.  Doesn't affect how I enjoy my system.

@prof, I find it amazing the lengths of inference you'll go to, to have the last word. Enjoy them.

All the best,
Nonoise

I tried to read all of this thread, truly I really did but it beat me.

So just one question to save me trying to find this snippet among all the detritus contained herein.

Would I be likely to see any improvement with raising cables up from my tiled floor?

wyoboy,


I suggest you’ve misdiagnosed the situation.

OK so initially you were happy in your subjective beliefs but some of your friends convinced you that you shouldn’t believe what you did so you left your happy bubble in order to prove that being happy was wrong ? And by golly you proved it ? So what was the point ? That truth is the goal regardless of how miserable it makes you ?

No, I am quite happy to challenge my own beliefs or subjective inferences, if it helps get closer to a truth. It’s even fun in of itself.Some people are worried about challenging their own perceptions (I mean *really* challenging them with controls for not peeking, not "I didn’t think this fuse would make a difference but I heard it!.*) They find the idea destabilizing. I’m fine with being wrong about them. (I did an undergrad in psychology and my favorite aspect was learning from all the research just how counter-intuitive some of the findings were, and the various ways our psychological heuristics lead us to errors. I’m often as happy learning I was wrong as that I was right, because that’s learning!)


As it happens, I actually had positive results for the initial blind tests I alluded to (I positively identified the CDPs and DACs in the blind test).Would I have been left "miserable" otherwise? Uh...no.


I’ve blind tested, for instance, expensive AC cables that I first thought I heard a difference. Was I made "miserable" when I couldn’t identify the expensive cables against a cheap AC cable? Not at all. It was fascinating and saved me money! I had a similar experience testing video cables back when they were purported to make "amazing visual differences" in AV systems. Didn’t find it to be the case.


Would I have liked to improve my picture with a high end video cable? Ya! I have a tweaker inside my like anyone else. But the flipside/silver lining was saving money and putting those agitating worries about video cabling on the shelf.

I came from the other direction--first believing solely in the empirical method and naysaying anyone who held solely subjectivist beliefs--and then i heard something i shouldn’t have heard--and it was not measurable--but it made me happy--so, bubble burst i entered the world of voodoo gladly and happily but with restraint on the wallet--like i’m about to try with the tweak of this thread.

Sure, that can happen too. Once you abandon demands for plausible explanations, any objective verification and don’t bother with controls for human error, it doesn’t matter how "objectivist" you have have started out, someone can perceive virtually anything to "make a difference." That is why such there are mountains of un-evidenced, contradictory claims flourishing in the world (take a stroll through your local New Age/Psychic’s Fair and see - they'll be giving you exactly the type of anecdotal accounts as you've just given).  And it’s why science is so strict about it’s methods. Doesn’t matter how objective or unbiased you think you are - it’s incredibly easy to let your guard drop and find "support" for a pet theory that isn’t there.



If going that route you mentioned make you happy, peace upon you! No one is trying to take that away.



As I keep explaining: I’ve gone that route too. For a long time I had some spongy pucks under my CDP (and some other gear) that seemed to me to make a sonic difference. I knew that it could be a form of sighted bias, but I chose not to care. Bias or not, I enjoyed having them in my system and they weren’t expensive. I also had some resonator thingies on my speakers for a long time for similar reasons. As I said, same goes for my tube amps, my vinyl set up etc. There is no Objectivist StormTroopers about to knock down your doors for simply taking the route that gives you most enjoyment.



But when subjects like tweaks come up, some of us will give reasons for our skepticism and why we feel more cautious about drawing conclusions for the efficacy. If that’s a threat to some people’s psychological equanimity or a challenge to their ability to enjoy this hobby, sorry, that’s on them.



Cheers and happy holidays/merry Christmas! I’m off to play some vinyl!

Hey @uberwaltz, if your tile is stone, ceramic or a composite of natural mediums, I doubt you'll hear a difference. I'm sure Michael from Tune Land or Geoff would disagree but from what I've read and my limited experience, to wit, synthetic carpets are the worse to lay cables on.

The improvements were immediate and repeatable. There's always a cheap and easy way to determine if you'll benefit from it. Some here have tried foam cups to determine if they can hear a difference. If so, then you can get something a bit more aesthetically pleasing without breaking the bank. 

@ywoboy, the Ikea tea light holders came in just half an hour ago and they offer the same improvement as the Yoplait Oui glass jars but look much better and dig into the carpet better as well. You can invert them as well to see which end holds the cable best. Both ends have that rounded, saw tooth pattern. I have them both ways as no two cables bend and weave alike.

All the best,
Nonoise