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Subwoofers and Phase Question For You Sub Experts

I use a pair of Dunlavy SC-3 speakers, known for their time/phase coherent crossover design.

When the stars align the speakers completely disappear and there’s a sense of space and 3 dimensionality that I’ve heard from few other speakers/systems. It’s easy to destroy the illusion with things like poor placement, poor setup of room treatments, etc.

Adding subs to the setup is both a blessing and a curse. The Dunlavy’s need some support in the nether regions and a pair of HSU subs do add a solid foundation to music which enhances the overall presentation; however, it’s at the expense of some stage depth, width and image dimensionality. Placing the subs a few inches forward of the front plane of the speakers helps a little but that isn’t where they perform at their best as ‘subwoofers’.
Finding optimal room positions for bass augmentation always creates a clash with the phase aspect of integration resulting in the diminished soundstage described above.
Playing with phase settings has little impact on the problem since there’s just a toggle for 0 and 180.

Which brings me to the questions - 
1/ How does running a swarm setup, with 4 subs, affect phase/time integration with the mains? Does it create twice or half the issue or remove it altogether?

2/ Looking at subs such as the JL Audio F series with auto room calibration, does the EQ algorithm compensate for any time/phase anomaly or is it simply looking for a more linear bass response?

I don’t mind investing in more sophisticated subs so long as I don’t end up with the same problem. I’m not really inclined to mess with software and the like, unless there’s no other way.

Thanks

Rooze


128x128rooze
erik_squires
16,123 posts
 
Hi Rooze,

I know swarms and more subs are the popular thing, but I dono't think that's the first direction.


I have a Hsu and I love it, but integration is key. The issues you have described may not be phase related at all.

Do you have any bass traps?  Consider adding those to your room. Talk to GIK Acoustics.


Yes, JL audio's room EQ is awesome, but also, you can do the same with your current subs and a miniDSP HD unit.  Either will, with the help of bass traps, fix your issues. The problem is the learning and implementation.  If you have the money, and don't want to go down a rabbit hole, get the JL subs. If you have the time, and want to learn, miniDSP with Room EQ Wizard is your most cost effective and just as good solution. 


I mean it when I say this, JL Audio won't be a better sounding solution than what you have now, but it sure will be faster. :)
daveyf's avatar
daveyf
2,874 posts
 
@rooze   What erik squires posted above. To that, I think it is very important to match a sub woofers resolving capability and speed to the main speakers that are being utilized. This is why I very much like what the REL subs can do. Firstly, you can hook up a REL to the high level input which means that they are connected to your amps outputs (just like your main speakers..as such they see exactly the same signal as the mains) and secondly REL offers some very fast and tonally accurate subs that can be made to easily match up with your mains...and your room. 
Personally, whenever I have heard Hsu's, they do not have much in the way of definition...and as such tend to deliver bass heft, but not bass resolution. ( which is great for HT, but not so much for our audio systems). 
I would see if you can hear a REL ( or a pair, as they tend to minimize room nodes) and go from there.
erik_squires
16,123 posts
 
Personally, whenever I have heard Hsu's, they do not have much in the way of definition...and as such tend to deliver bass heft, but not bass resolution. ( which is great for HT, but not so much for our audio systems).



It's all in the EQ in front of them. :)

bubinga
104 posts
 
Agree with daveyf.  Go with the appropriate REL sub.  I have the T7i with my Joseph Audio Pulsars.  Integration is seamless as far as I can tell and the sub positively impacts / enhances all frequencies, not just the low / mid bass.

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