Alex, I like directness and lack of ambiguity. Btw, speaking of ambiguity, I am not sure what you found “ambiguous” about my comments in the “other” thread; comments that, from my perspective, should have remained there. I thought my comments were quite clear and unambiguous, even if you seem to have misunderstood them. Since you took it upon yourself to move that discussion including my comments and your reaction to them to this thread, a thread where I have made clear I don’t want to stray from the subject of music, I will keep my comments brief; or, at least more brief than they would be otherwise....maybe 😊
With respect, this is obviously a very sensitive subject for you. You seem intent on engaging in a debate about the topic since you offered no comment of your own to the “other” OP, but did challenge mine. Unfortunately, you made some assumptions that are not accurate and, in the process, missed some of the more nuanced aspects of the issue and of what I alluded to in my comments.
**** Suggesting that somehow people would have lesser moral values without such (religious) education is something that I could not agree less ****
I suggested nothing of the sort. The nuances:
We live in an age of the preponderance of social media and other aspects of “modern” culture which have demonstrably (arguably?) eroded some traditional societal values. As a parent I can attest to the fact that, not only do many parents, mostly out of convenience, surrender at least some of their parental responsibilities to the schools (“official”), the schools actively impose the “official” viewpoint on various topics and override the parent; ostensibly, for “the greater good”. From MY vantage point, one of the main and most damaging examples of this has been the (as I said in the “other” thread) “concerted effort to remove God and spirituality from education” (Btw, you continue to ignore the distinction between God/spirituality and religion). It is MY belief that, at least, some exposure to the role that belief in God or general appreciation of the role that spirituality can play in a person’s life is nothing but a positive for a young person being educated. Not to inculcate or convert to any one religion, but to help understand the role that these values play(ed) in the lives of some; in the case of this discussion, Bach. Personally, I don’t see how belief in a force greater than oneself and the kind of personal humility that comes with that can be anything but a positive. However, that’s just my viewpoint and I recognize that in an age when for many it’s all about “me” many would disagree.
Now, in the absence of strong positive parental examples as is case in sadly more and more modern families, if one then also removes the sense of accountability to some entity or belief outside of oneself it is not surprising to me that SOME might be lacking in the moral (to use your word) values that would stop someone contemplating vandalizing and disrespecting an important symbol (the church in question) of all of the above.
THAT was my point. No more, no less. Of course, a religious upbringing or education is not necessary for someone to be a moral person and the absence of those does not make one immoral. However, there is no question in my mind that SOME need the help and guidance from one source or another; especially in their developmental years. When none is forthcoming we see the negative results. In the context of the “other” OP, that was my premise.
I hope this makes my “other” comments less ambiguous.
Regards.
With respect, this is obviously a very sensitive subject for you. You seem intent on engaging in a debate about the topic since you offered no comment of your own to the “other” OP, but did challenge mine. Unfortunately, you made some assumptions that are not accurate and, in the process, missed some of the more nuanced aspects of the issue and of what I alluded to in my comments.
**** Suggesting that somehow people would have lesser moral values without such (religious) education is something that I could not agree less ****
I suggested nothing of the sort. The nuances:
We live in an age of the preponderance of social media and other aspects of “modern” culture which have demonstrably (arguably?) eroded some traditional societal values. As a parent I can attest to the fact that, not only do many parents, mostly out of convenience, surrender at least some of their parental responsibilities to the schools (“official”), the schools actively impose the “official” viewpoint on various topics and override the parent; ostensibly, for “the greater good”. From MY vantage point, one of the main and most damaging examples of this has been the (as I said in the “other” thread) “concerted effort to remove God and spirituality from education” (Btw, you continue to ignore the distinction between God/spirituality and religion). It is MY belief that, at least, some exposure to the role that belief in God or general appreciation of the role that spirituality can play in a person’s life is nothing but a positive for a young person being educated. Not to inculcate or convert to any one religion, but to help understand the role that these values play(ed) in the lives of some; in the case of this discussion, Bach. Personally, I don’t see how belief in a force greater than oneself and the kind of personal humility that comes with that can be anything but a positive. However, that’s just my viewpoint and I recognize that in an age when for many it’s all about “me” many would disagree.
Now, in the absence of strong positive parental examples as is case in sadly more and more modern families, if one then also removes the sense of accountability to some entity or belief outside of oneself it is not surprising to me that SOME might be lacking in the moral (to use your word) values that would stop someone contemplating vandalizing and disrespecting an important symbol (the church in question) of all of the above.
THAT was my point. No more, no less. Of course, a religious upbringing or education is not necessary for someone to be a moral person and the absence of those does not make one immoral. However, there is no question in my mind that SOME need the help and guidance from one source or another; especially in their developmental years. When none is forthcoming we see the negative results. In the context of the “other” OP, that was my premise.
I hope this makes my “other” comments less ambiguous.
Regards.