Toole and why I like Tone Controls


In another thread I was pointed to a really excellent paper by Dr. Floyd Toole (he doesn't use the Dr. but it is well earned) on getting to neutral.

So I want to go back with a little history. In all of audio reproduction theater sound reproduction is among the most rigidly controlled areas of audio. From the needs of Dolby Surround playback, to introduction of acoustic decay requirements introduced by THX, and more, the attempt to deliver a uniform theater experience has been a subject of serious effort by many, and continues to be so.

That's in sharp contrast to consumer music.

So while this article focuses heavily on theater sound, it also touches on just how difficult it is for even theater sound experts to get to neutral. If they can't do it, imagine how hard it is for music!

And, yes, I'm going to hijack Dr. Toole's paper to plug tone controls. With all the guessing that goes on, not using tone controls, and not having great tone controls to use is folly.  Quote me. I said FOLLY!

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20200201/17839.pdf

Also, personal request, if anyone knows how I can get in touch with him and be a fan boy, please let me know. :) I'd love to hang with him, and it turns out he's a local.
erik_squires
Simple Path makes sense, EXCEPT, lack of controls leaves you with no control when adjustments would increase enjoyment.

Controls, done right, do nothing until desired/engaged. Optional Tone Control Bypass are liked by many.

Idealy: REMOTE VOLUME, and REMOTE BALANCE.

I see this as distinct/related/interactive parts

1. TONE controls

2. BALANCE Control

3. IMAGING Refinement (assuming decent imaging to begin with).

4. LOUDNESS: AUTOMATIC Low Volume Contour.
....................................

1. TONE Control.

1a. Generally, I prefer listening to what artist/engineer put out. If I don’t like it, I am not likely to listen again. However, they certainly can be beneficial.

1b. Tone Controls, in some situations, can ’fix’ asymmetrical/difficult listening spaces, finding a general adjustment for the system.

1c. In the past, other systems, I’ve tried for ’perfection’ with advanced equalizers, pro microphones, ... it was a trap, back to basics please.
................................................

2. BALANCE. System’s Balanced, Great.

2a. After that, I find for some tracks, tweaking balance a little can make a large improvement. Adjusting Imaging ’opens up’ all the instruments. It could be/occasionally is the engineering; your side wall; a system imbalance; a slightly weak tube ...

2b. Remote Balance is the easiest to make very slight and quick adjustment from the listening position.

2c. PHONO/TT setup (skip to 3 if no phono)

Anti-skate is critical for balance/imaging/groove/stylus wear.

Get it right, re-check it occassionally. (re-check tracking force occassionally also). I just learned a lot due to an arm with only one 2.5g weight.

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/fidelity-research-fr-54-tonearm-anti-skate

1. TT dial/hanging weight/rod with notches often are not perfect, or even close!

2. Stylus shape varies the effect of inward skate.

3. Smooth disk method works very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4VT-JsG_MM

4. Stylus with brush effects both downward force, AND inward/anti-skate. Using the smooth disk, leaving the brush DOWN while adjusting anti-skate proved successful.

5. I use my protractor/overhang/null point disc, it has enough smooth area

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MU6AD2E/ref=sspa_dk_hqp_detail_aax_0?spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVTQzSDhOUThNS0EyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjY1MDI1OVdUU0MzS0k5V1ZRJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA5OTI2MjcyNTBJWEI0TkkwNzZBJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfaHFwX3NoYXJlZCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

6. I saw a video of someone using a blank CD. However, small diameter, be ready to catch the arm before it goes off the outside edge onto .....

7. Listening. This disc is my final confirmation/tweak.

Side 2, tracks 2 and 3: Three distinct guitars, and equal audience noise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_Night_in_San_Francisco

It is a very good example of 2a. above, how a slight tweak can make a large difference.

Eurythmics, Any: Annie Lennox/Dave’s Symetrical effects; Cassandra Wilson, Blue Light Till Dawn; Fontella Bass, New Look. Your favorite. Voices engineered to be dead center. (as long as they are not moving around the stage, i.e. live performances). Get them center, then, look a bit to the left: can you imagine them over there? Look a bit right, can you imagine ... tweak, dead on!

NOT Hot Sardines. (Great Jazz Band). Singer is OFF Center, leaving room for tap dancer, staying close to Piano. She may be right (saw her live at SOPAC), or left, Donna saw her live at Joe’s Pub, at this performance

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07NBPDG8P?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-win10-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-scomp-wm-5&ref=aa_scomp_srdg2
.......................................................

3. IMAGING.

3a. Balance as noted above.

3b. Boost favorite instrument, i.e. Jazz Bass; Piano; Sax/Trumpet/...; Voice. At decent volume, just change the engineer’s choices to suit. Just a slight touch, only for that track ...
.........................................................

4. LOUDNESS: (AUTOMATIC Low Volume Contour). TRICKY
Essentially Bass Boost at Low Volumes. Good but hard to get right. Only needed if you listen at low volumes, i.e. while reading, or dreaded unwanted visitors arrive ...

4a. Mis-named, thus mis-understood, often improper implementation.
LOW BOOST; LOW VOL+; some name short enough to print on panel face.

4b. It does not know your speaker’s efficiency, so, how can it be automatically correct?

4c. Boosting/retaining bass, i.e. Jazz Bass, Low Piano notes, at low volume listening is much better than losing it.

4d. It should begin and work below your ’normal’ listening level, thus 2 volume controls are needed for proper implementation.

4e. Some old pre-amps/receivers had two volume controls.

First, Loudness Volume Control to un-engaged position. Then main volume for preferred listening volume. Then reduce volume using Loudness Volume Control, thereby progressively engaging LOW Volume Boost.

4f. Lacking that rare feature, you need to achieve the same arrangement with a pre-amp with LOUDNESS engaged when you want it.

First get a volume ’mix’ with Loudness OFF.

You need to find when your preamp’s loudness contour begins when ON. Then set pre-amp just above that, and use your amps volume to get your preferred volume, and volume increase, and back to ’normal’ when done listening.

Then, use the preamp to reduce volume, thus beginning the progressive bass boost. Also back to normal when done listening.

If you have two cartridges with different outputs, use the amp’s volume.

Loudness OFF. Amp half way up. Preamp half way up. Raise preamp, then lower preamp, until you hear bass weaken. Raise a bit, that’s where you want Loudness Boost to begin. Loudness ON: lower pre-amp volume: bass remains, not apparently boosted.

Amp volume control for louder, Preamp volume control for reduced, below normal volume listening.

Easy!
Hello elliotbnewcombjr,

     Let me get this straight, you make all of the adjustments you detailed on your last post every time you decide to enjoy some music?  
     You certainly don't make all of these fine tuning adjustments on every musical track you play, right?  I would think many tracks would be finished playing by the time you made all the fine tuning adjustments you describe.
     Do you play each track twice, once to fine tune all your settings and once again to enjoy the actual music?
     Have you ever considered the possibility that you enjoy making adjustments and fine tuning the controls more than you enjoy the music?

Thanks,
   Tim
Further, I don’t really like the idea of fiddling with EQ per track.  That’s a more fidgety approach to music listening than I want to engage in


@prof - Absolutely true for me as well.

 Once my speakers are dialed in nicely I tend to enjoy pretty much everything played through them.


I tend to agree that neutral speakers have a much easier time playing anything you want through them, but I eventually found mine were a little too laid back, so I added a little bass, and at night if I'm wide awake I'll turn on the loudness so I can hear it all.

Best,

E
I have 2 "tone control" options: Adjusting the levels of my subs (easy to do with the "chicken head" knobs I put on them) which I do rarely, and a Schiit Loki 4 band EQ also used rarely and when switched to bypass it disappears utterly. Neither has any discernible audible downside.
I only switch to a different curves for recordings with problems. This is usually for cutting female voices or strings. I'll switch to the curve with the 3K notch filter which smooths things out nicely. Other wise I only get into it when there is a significant change in the system like new amps or re- positioning the speakers or a change in the room like a new sofa. Otherwise it is set it and forget it. 
It would be the rare, truly exceptional system and room that would not benefit from correction not to mention other things you can do in the digital domain like subwoofer cross overs and dynamic loudness compensation.