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Importance of phase and timing optimization when incorporating sub woofers ?

For incorporating a pair of sub woofers into a music system, how important is it to be able to optimize phase ( continuous adjustments and not just 0 or 180) and timing ( optimizing delay ) ? Reading on this subject, some say to get the best seamless integration, the two above factors are essential. REL is frequently mentioned as the most musical/fast/detailed sub woofers for music, however they only allow of 0 or 180 deg phase and no other room correction, as compared to Velodyne DD’s or JL Audio’s. I could utilize something like the JL Audio CR-1 crossover, but adding an additional piece of equipment into the audio chain wouldn’t be my first choice. On the other hand, the added benefit, might make the addition of a well made crossover a net plus ??? Regardless I plan on having my room/system measured to assist with incorporating what ever two subs I go with.
Thoughts from experienced users?
jim94025
alaric62
80 posts
 
I'm just going to get a subwoofer I can afford and play with the adjustments available until I'm happy with the integration. If I can't get happy, I'll unload the sub and stick with my two speakers. Poverty has its advantages-some things are just simple.
fuzztone's avatar
fuzztone
5,606 posts
 
I prefer Larry & Susie.
needlebrush
99 posts
 
Titans?? 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Yes Duke but FR, Phase and Time interact. In order to get the frequency response right it helps to get the timing right. I have continuous control over the delays of each speaker and subwoofer and can make adjustments by remote. I can hear exactly what happens. When I run an impulse test on the system the computer will automatically set the delays so that the sound from each speaker hits the listening position at exactly the same time in phase. It also calculates filters to make the frequency response dead flat over the entire spectrum. I can overlay target curves on top to give the system the frequency response I like. Also remember like you I use 4 subwoofers. If I bypass the system it is a very dramatic difference. The image blurs, the bass gets funky and there is too much treble. With the system on you can't tell there are subwoofers until a real low note comes along and I cross up high at 125 Hz. 
Jim, having phase controls on subwoofers is not quite a gimmick but close unless you have a method of measuring delays and frequency response. Doing this by ear is next to impossible. Having room control in the sub is a dual edged sword. It does not excuse you from doing proper acoustic management. The bass will only sound right where you place the microphone and off everywhere else. If there is a 6 db null point at say 40 Hz at the listening position your sub's amp will be forced to put out 4 times the power there. If there is a 6 dB peak 8 feet away that peak now becomes 12 dB. The best way to deal with this is by having multiple subs. I find it interesting that both Audiokinesis and I both landed on 4 subs. It is a more effective way of dealing with room acoustics especially if you do not have measuring equipment. 
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,800 posts
 
The Rythmik Audio subs that contain one of the company's "Full" size plate amps (A370, H600, etc.) have a continuously-variable phase control, allowing adjustment anywhere from 0 to 180 degrees (no delay to 16 ms). And if you choose Rythmik's OB/Dipole Sub, it will excite fewer room modes than will ANY single omnipole sub.
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