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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




hilde45
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,464 posts
 
@Tvad, you make an excellent point. And I will definitely think hard about the Pass Labs integrated amplifier. The hard question would be if I’m going tubes or not.

That said, you were making a larger point about investing for the longer term. By rejecting the QS integrated at 20 wpc as under-powered (which I heard yesterday and really enjoyed) I think I’m already starting to enact your advice, but in a cautious piecemeal way. You’re saying, "don’t go half-ass" on what is a sound trajectory — toward quality gear.

My thinking against such a high dollar purchase was that I need to live with solid state or tubes or hybrid for a while before knowing what I really want. Paying $6k or whatever, now, much now makes the experiment feel riskier than paying $3k. I guess it all gets re-sold at some point, though, so best not to dwell on the purchase price.
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decooney
2,358 posts
 
@hilde45, 
@decooney Thanks for the explanation about the non-remote QS. Noted for future reference. Also, they DO have the Quicksilver Mid Mono Amp. Maybe I just suck it up and get QS separates? That would work with any speakers, right?


Key Question (speakers): 
Well, back to square-1 questions.  Are you 100% settled on Salk Wow1s, done, and ordered?  Its not an issue, need to know for sure to help more. 

Personally, in that situation and (IF) you go with Quicksilver, I'd recommend going with the QS Mono 60s (vs Mid Monos) so you have a future-proof upgrade path for larger speakers later. It might happen.  I like the QS Mid Monos (partial triode) but they need to be matched with the right speakers, say above 90db.  84db from Salk Wow1s might be better served with QS Mono 60s or Mono 120s, amps alone being beyond your started $3,000 budget. Back to speakers question above. 

INITIAL COST vs. Amortized cost over a long term:  
If you buy the right preamp and amplifier (right from the get-go) - (tube or ss), amortize that initial cost over 10-20 years vs. a five year purchase buying a lesser amp you'll upgrade again in 5 years anyhow. Return on investment also has to do with longevity too, avoiding upgradeitis later.  It's not just about the initial purchase price.  I ran my last SS amps for 20 years, loved them. Very nice, but not tube though.   

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hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,464 posts
 
@decooney ey
Re: Key Question (speakers): "Are you 100% settled on Salk Wow1s"
Answer: They are ordered. Not auditioned yet and returnable. I'll have to eat the shipping. A lot of research went into picking them, so I'm really inclined to give them a charitable listen.

Regarding the QS Mono 60s (vs Mid Monos) — Yes. I would do that. I just agreed with Tvad that he's right about not skimping now and paying later. So I'm reaching into the college fund (kidding) and altering my budget. As you point out, this is not just doing something that is good for the speakers, but it is opening the door to change.

As for thinking amortized over initial cost — I'm there with you. I can accept this as an argument. My price limit just got more flexible but it's based on good reasons provided here and not on sales pitches or vanity/luxury bs from a dealer. That's a critical factor for me.

@tvad Re: "Auditioning amplification prior to settling on speakers is an audio merry go around."
Answer: Yes, you're right, and I see that it's reaching a terminus. But I'm not that up in the air about speakers — I know I like the Dyns and I suspect I'll like the Salks. But I do need to give it a rest and let the (speaker chips) fall where they may. That said, once I do pick a speaker — high or low sensitivity — the research folks have helped me compile and the listening I've done is still valueable. But you're right if you're saying that I'm at the point of diminishing returns! Time for me to just "cool it."


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