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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
decooney
2,078 posts
 
But the INT60 is 60 watts, right? And Jim Salk said 100 watts minimum, right? I suspect the answer for this Pass Labs stuff is going to be in the "not all watts are the same" category — right?

Without getting into too far into the weeds, "Yes".

And, once you’ve heard a really great SS amplifier circuit design with larger super-high-quality transformers and capacitors, blah blah, you’ll be amazed how LOUD and FULL it sounds only playing 1.5 to 2.0 watts. A few local mentors showed me long ago why they say "it all starts with the transformers", and why I needed to come over to the tube side too. The truth is, I like both, really great tube amps and really great SS amps, but they are big $.

With Nelson, it seems to be his tenacity to explore different circuits, transistors, great transformers and good parts inside for amazing results. He started as a speaker guy ya know... where my roots came from too.

BUT, matching the right speakers with his amps is key too - and it can vary between the ".5" and latest ".8" version amps. I’ve heard his amps with super popular (unmentioned) high efficiency speakers (normally used with low power tube amps) that truly sounded horrible, like really bad, at an audio show mind you. Was floored how bad it sounded with poor speaker matching.

I bet the INT60 would whip those Wow1s right into confirmation, and much larger speakers too - but follow what @tvad said, ask Mark at Reno HiFi. I would love to run up to Pass (35 minutes away) and see about demoing an INT60 myself later after summer just to do it and compare it with my own custom speakers and my 120w mono tube amps. The only reason I have not is I don’t want to walk out of there with a pair of XA-100.8 mono amps and be hooked. Don’t need it and can’t afford it. Best to stay the heXX away from there. Caution! :)
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,979 posts
 
@decooney Good to know. The match I'll need advice on, if I go this way. You're tempted by the Pass? Wouldn't that be abandoning tubes? Hmmm. Probably should stick with one god if you're a monotheist.
decooney
2,078 posts
 
@hilde45 OP175 posts02-23-2020 2:10pm@decooney Good to know. The match I’ll need advice on, if I go this way. You’re tempted by the Pass? Wouldn’t that be abandoning tubes? Hmmm. Probably should stick with one god if you’re a monotheist.

For less money, 1/2 the price, I’ve been able to get amazing 3-dimensional, lush, dynamic (engaging) sound out of very simple design mono tube amps with the right transformers, designed to run KT150 output tubes. Before and after Mosfet SS amps, I was an EL34 tube midrange freak. Now with current KT150 tubes (in the right amp/circuit design) changed the game for me to stay "tube". IMO: those who just put KT150 tubes in a KT88 based amps don’t compare. My amps mainly run KT150s, designed just for KT150s. When biased correctly, all the sudden my Pentode tubes sound like Triode sound with power and dynamics I prefer. The designer is really on to something. Once I added vintage mid 1960s NOS triode Mullard input and driver tubes I was sold, done, game over! The result is quite astonishing and works well with my particular speakers. Again, "matching".

As to your question:
For equivalent solid state amplification "that sound like tube" (for the appropriate speaker/power/impedance i need) I’ve confirmed I’d actually spend 2.5x on the amps alone. Typically I build everything myself, yet in this case and (abilities of my own) I truly respect and recognize the mastermind amplifier gurus who offer something you just gotta buy and enjoy it as is, made by locals in the good old USA. :) 
gotvinyl's avatar
gotvinyl
10 posts
 
I bought a used Audible Illusions Modulus preamp at the recommendation of a trusted friend with similar tastes in sound. It’s in very good condition and was upgraded with new caps. I mated it with a Trafomatic  Experience Two. Excellent sounding preamp at a fraction of the cost of all the latest recommended components. There are numerous models of Audible Illusions to choose from on the used market. 
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,979 posts
 
@gotvinyl Thanks, I will go check them out.
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