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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
mglik
911 posts
 
Hi Andrew,
There are only a couple of companies who only make one product-a preamp. The slam dunk best of these is Audible Illusions. A “class A” Stereophile component for decades. With the continuing review “as good as any regardless of price”. I have never read this comment for any other component. For ever, I only used a passive preamp addicted to the unmatched transparency. When I finally bit the bullet and bough the active AI, I found I was wrong. The AI has all the transparency of a passive with the pronounced ability to look into the music. It is one of the few preamps that has the simplicity, purity and magic of the single ended triode. Only one tube per channel. The newest model is $5200. A factory refurbished unit can be found for about $2500. Believe AI  has sold something like 60k preamps over the years. I consider a preamp as the heart of a system. Also, that the vast majority of preamps are overly complex and colored. I love the true heart in my system and would never change. My music is too important and central in my life... especially now!
wolf_garcia
6,723 posts
 
Old chestnut? Tube guitar amps are generally at the end of that pedalboard chain for a reason...they sound better. A great tube guitar amp has a much snappier response than a SS amp (although many jazz dudes are into Polytones or other SS amps...a mystery but hey, you get used to anything). A great guitar player I know who owned the same SS Fender amp in the late 70s as I did (we tried...it was a London Reverb) had come to the same conclusion I had...they just didn't have the mojo...I went back to my tube amps. When the effects are off you crave the full tone and immediate snap of a great tube amp for non distorted tone, and put a great pedal in that mix and it's simply right.
phd
1,324 posts
 
Now that you got around 200 recommendations, I hope this has made it a little easier on which one to get.
arcticdeth's avatar
arcticdeth
1,572 posts
 
Best of luck, in your preamp search!

 I would love a nice tube pre for my amp, but, time, and reliability, plus cost is a huge crutch for me.

 I’ll stic w my aging SS preamps.

enjoy the ride!
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,030 posts
 
200 suggestions! Feels like it. Some people have been repeatedly helpful to me -- had a lot of experience with different gear and have been willing to consider what I need. I really appreciate that.

I actually created a master document with suggestions which were well-reasoned or which many people mentioned. I created a multi-page table populated with brands and important criteria.

Here are a few general lessons I've taken away, as they made sense to me: 

  • Tube gear costs more than I initially expected but there are good used deals out there, real values. It is not unaffordable.
  • Some tube gear holds its value forever (Sachs, deHavilland, Herron) other gear becomes quite easy to find discounted.
  • Tube watts are different, but low sensitivity speakers are going require a lot of $$ for comfortable amounts of tube-power
  • Tubes are everywhere. In preamps/amps, in DAC's, in CD players. (In MIGs!)
  • It is hard to know how many components with tubes to get — at just the preamp level or at multiple levels. (E.g. should I get a tube DAC if I have a tube preamp? Probably need to experiment and not assume one way or another.)
  • Impedance-matching between different preamp and amp brands isn't technically hard, but synergy is a trickier guess if one cannot audition. Many will tell you what worked for them, but the speakers, etc. are additional variables which complicate the match. (Not to mention room, cables, etc.)
  • Tubes can sound like SS and vice versa, within limits. Nice sounding SS (to approach the softness of tubes) can be very expensive.
  • In the preamp/amp combination, Tube/SS is much more advisable than SS/Tube.
  • Some say "all you need is a tube preamp" others say, "go tubes all the way"


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