@tvad Oh man, did I just laugh!
Tweaks - An Honest Discussion
I know there is a lot of talk about performance tweaks in this forum and the value that can be realized. I've started this thread because it seems that folks tend towards believing they are either the silver bullet to sonic bliss or conversely simply snake oil. I believe tweaks are somewhere in between and in most cases, worth about what you pay for (crazy I know).
I'm open minded to tweaks and have employed many in my system over the years including isolation, fuses, footers, HFTs, cabling, cable risers and attempts at reducing RFI (among others). While I believe that many of these tweaks incrementally helped me get better performance out of my system I never for a second found any tweak make a transformational difference the way that a significantly upgraded piece of gear brings to the table. I think many of us have been quite happy with our systems over the years but that doesn't mean implementing a tweak can possibly compete with the benefit of replacing a piece of gear that is well matched to elevate your system. Just because you're happy with your setup doesn't mean a major gear change can't really elevate the experience - surely well beyond any form of tweakery.
As an example, I've been very happy with a Hana ML cart and how it's performed in my system. I recently decided to acquire a Lyra Kleos cart - for a $2K increase the change has been transformational in terms of dynamic range and ability to convey detail and imaging. There has never been a dot I've placed on a wall, carbon platform placed under gear, or RFI shielding device I've ever used that could possibly come close to this equipment upgrade. Same goes for upgrades to my system over the years in terms of amps, pre's, and speakers. For anyone to suggest that through tweaks alone you can elevate your system to a level that only gear changes can achieve simply falls flat in my experience. Some may be shocked to hear that most of the time a $200 tweak truly only gets you about $200 worth of improvement (if any) and not the equivalent of a $5000 gear upgrade. I know there is a certain allure that by simply being smart and applying elbow grease that we can extend the sonic limits of our system well beyond it's design, parts, and capabilities but that's just not true IMO.
What's your experience been?
I'm open minded to tweaks and have employed many in my system over the years including isolation, fuses, footers, HFTs, cabling, cable risers and attempts at reducing RFI (among others). While I believe that many of these tweaks incrementally helped me get better performance out of my system I never for a second found any tweak make a transformational difference the way that a significantly upgraded piece of gear brings to the table. I think many of us have been quite happy with our systems over the years but that doesn't mean implementing a tweak can possibly compete with the benefit of replacing a piece of gear that is well matched to elevate your system. Just because you're happy with your setup doesn't mean a major gear change can't really elevate the experience - surely well beyond any form of tweakery.
As an example, I've been very happy with a Hana ML cart and how it's performed in my system. I recently decided to acquire a Lyra Kleos cart - for a $2K increase the change has been transformational in terms of dynamic range and ability to convey detail and imaging. There has never been a dot I've placed on a wall, carbon platform placed under gear, or RFI shielding device I've ever used that could possibly come close to this equipment upgrade. Same goes for upgrades to my system over the years in terms of amps, pre's, and speakers. For anyone to suggest that through tweaks alone you can elevate your system to a level that only gear changes can achieve simply falls flat in my experience. Some may be shocked to hear that most of the time a $200 tweak truly only gets you about $200 worth of improvement (if any) and not the equivalent of a $5000 gear upgrade. I know there is a certain allure that by simply being smart and applying elbow grease that we can extend the sonic limits of our system well beyond it's design, parts, and capabilities but that's just not true IMO.
What's your experience been?
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- 108 posts total
f1status1- Next on the list is vibration control. I’m on a suspended wood floor and it vibrates. I can feel my components vibrate and I’d like to address this area next. Would you suggest plinths under the speakers? Feet or cone brand to try? So what is the status of F1, f1? What a shame we have a potential GOAT in Hamilton and thanks to Wuhan can't watch him race. Vibration control is huge. Its the first big tweak I discovered and learned to understand. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 You're smart to call it vibration control. Because there is a whole range of vibrations, across frequencies, amplitudes, and sources. Controlling large amplitude low to moderate frequency floor vibrations, micro-level high frequency solid state and tube vibrations, and turntable vibrations which is a whole category to itself, these all require similar yet different approaches. You can see them all in my system. One very important point to keep in mind when studying vibration control is even things like shape and size make a difference. Like for example Frank noted granite gave him improved mids and highs but nonexistent bass. I'd be willing to bet it wasn't as large a slabs as I use. Because the bass in my system is awesome, and improved when these were added. But the one under the turntable is sitting on a 4" thick slab of concrete with over an inch of sand in between and all as part of a rack that weighs in somewhere north of 700 lbs. The one under the Melody amp is sitting on BDR Cones, no sand bed. Both these granite slabs have a nasty ring that needs to be controlled. It could be controlled somewhat with shape. But it gets expensive. Mahgister has the right approach: experiment, listen, tweak, listen, repeat. This is the dirty secret of manufacturers. DIY, like mahgister, which is also what I did. BDR Cones have been around a long time. Probably others have come along in the 30 years since BDR came out, probably even some that are as good or maybe even better. I haven't seen much evidence of that but you never know. The best indication I think, besides my recommendation, is how infrequently they come up for sale- and how fast and how much they sell for when they do. Pretty amazing for a tweak where the inventor died more than a dozen years ago and nowhere but Music Direct carrying it. Other than that about the only downside is its every mention triggers a post from Capt Irrelevant. Then again at 21,215 and counting you could probably say that about everything. |
millercarbon ... Correcto Mundo ... The granite slabs that I tried under the speakers were 12" x 12" and were designed to go under electronic equipment. They have a constrained layer of dampening material between two layers. If you look at my system pictures, you’ll see larger versions under the electronics. They work like crazy under the electronics, but the smaller ones really sucked under the speakers. After trying the granite platforms under the speakers, and not liking the results, I placed them on top of the speakers where they fit perfectly. The added weight was akin to adding mass to the speakers, and that brought about a nice gain in SQ from placing them there. The Mapleshade maple platforms as described above were much larger and thicker than the granite platforms. The Mapleshade platforms, plus the ten-pack of SR HFT’s placed around the room as directed, combined with the granite platforms on top of the speakers, gave the system outstanding bass and improved everything dramatically from top to bottom. Frank |
jpwarren58....filing 'it' away only makes it eat away @ the back of your brain....;) 'Neurosi' are like that....and our present (sur)reality is going to generate a lot of them....'nice, 'normal' paranoias' become the norm, audio varieties being the least of them..... But then again, neurosis and mania's have a lot in common..... (I'm not a doctor, but I can look, act, and talk like one....) "Here....(hands him three fingers of J. Daniels')....Drink this, go to bed, and don't call me in the morning. I like to sleep in, and recover from this myself..." |
- 108 posts total