Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)


I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
@cd318
Thanks for your thoughtful post. I eliminated as much as I could and narrowed down to things which would not waste dealers' time, be something I could afford, and would best suit my amp and musical tastes.

I've listened to music for most of my 50+ years but only recently ventured into significantly higher quality sound; so, the challenge for someone like me has been to "educate my palate," so to speak. People rave about all kinds of speaker *types* (electrostatic, open baffle, MTM, etc.) and I had no idea how these things would sound, to my ears and in my room. I've learned a lot, and this forum and its members have helped me understand that there are many things that contribute besides the speaker — the room, most importantly, but more generally, my goals. I didn't really know my goals with any specificity in the beginning, and so it's easy to wander forever. Values drive everything else, so as the Delphic Oracle said, "Know Thyself." (Or, "Figure it out!")

Your point about not buying a speaker that *then has to be tamed* is exactly right; it took me into my 30's to stop buying shoes that pinched in the store but which I thought would "wear in." But I followed your logic with the Focals and the Martin Logans because I did not want to buy something wrong for my room, even if it could be "fixed." (Well, maybe or maybe not.) And returning those was hard because they were huge, I had to pack them up, I risked damage during shipping, and I had already put them on my Visa. Lots of reasons to say "good enough." But despite their very good reviews and many recommendations from smart people, they sounded wrong to me, and so I shipped them back. 

All this while I was conscious I could become impossible to please (the Princess and the Pea, audiophile edition). But now that I'm coming toward the end of the process I'm realizing that this has all been the "tuition of experience." I've educated my ears, figured out a lot about my room, and learned about various technical elements pertinent to speakers, amplification, and acoustics. The speaker choice is now more than just an expensive purchase, but the culmination of this aesthetic inquiry in service of music.
ex·​pe·​ri·​ence "direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge".

There are members on this forum with strong opinions back to early 2000s and now at "ten amps ago" or "twenty speakers ago". Some could afford to buy and resell, others simply demo’d with good merchants. Never feel bad about demo’ing. If it’s right for someone, they will buy it. Each of us have different hearing and preferences. To each his own.
I’ll tell you this. I own ML Spires. Am I trading them for Motians because ML wants to sell AMT speakers instead of planars, which btw, ML is known for over 40 years? The answer is absolutely no. Spires sold new for $8500. Today you can buy those same speakers for $3500. Why sample an inferior $4k speaker when one could purchase a superior product for $3500? Headscratching. But hey, it’s your money, and spend it as you choose. But don’t whine how Motians for $4k aren’t effective in your speaker shootout when there is a superior speaker available in the Spire or Ethos. 
So what's the result of the basement shoot-out?  Inquiring minds want to know...
@twoleftears et al.
Update on speaker shootout: Salks win.
I did extensive listening to all kinds of music, with many positionings of the speakers. There is no question that the Salks win, hands down.

Besides having an estimable bass response (even firmer and only a little deeper when paired with my REL sub), the clarity and precision of the upper midrange really gave me what I was looking for, without the harsh, aggressive treble of the Focals or Martin Logans or what I can only describe as slightly rolled off or veiled highs in the Fritz or Dynaudios. They just smudge the details I really want to hear.

There is no question for me that, among these speakers, none are perfect. The bass on the ML’s is low and tight; the soundstage on the Focals and the midrange is really luscious, expansive, and presses my "astonishment" button; the silky, across the board honesty and listenability of the Fritz is really an impossibly good combination. But given what I have discovered as my penchant for revealing and crystalline upper mids and treble, the Salks took the prize for me. On *some* tunes, I wished they would be a bit less forward, but this is a trade off which I think I can live with — even if I don’t address any of the issues in my room. (The REW data I’ve seen after a week of testing has shown me where some problems with my room are and I have some ideas about how to address them.)

So, there you have it. End of the road. Good process; back to the beginning, but learned a lot on the way.