Does the first reflection point actually matter??


Hello my friends,

So please read the whole post before commenting. The question is nuanced.

First, as you probably know I’m a huge fan of the well treated room, and a fan boy of GIK acoustics as a result, so what I am _not_ arguing is against proper room treatment. I remember many years ago, perhaps in Audio magazine (dating myself?) the concept of treating the first reflection points came up, and it seems really logical, and quickly adopted. Mirrors, flashlights and lasers and paying the neighbor’s kid (because we don’t have real friends) to come and hold them while marking the wall became common.

However!! In my experience, I have not actually been able to tell the difference between panels on and off that first reflection point. Of course, I can hear the difference between panels and not, but after all these years, I want to ask if any of you personally know that the first reflection point really matters more than other similar locations. Were we scammed? By knowing I mean, did you experiment? Did you find it the night and day difference that was uttered, or was it a subtle thing, and if those panels were moved 6" off, would you hear it?


Best,


Erik
erik_squires

Reflections within listening rooms are real and numerous. Some would argue that they all are problems to be eliminated. Others take a more philosophical view that they just provide information about the room, and the brain can figure it out. I’m somewhere in the middle, but leaning towards the latter. The science that has been done so far seems to be on my side.


article: Room Reflections & Human Adaptation for Small Room Acoustics by Floyd Toole

Dr. Floyd Toole says that in 2019 article has impressive business and academic credentials, having held the postion of Corporate Vice President – Acoustical Engineering at Harman International from 1991 until he retired in 2007 and Senior Research Officer in the Acoustics and Signal Processing Group at the National Research Council of Canada.

He knows perhaps what he is speaking about...

My own experiments with my room acoustic, using reflections instead of killing them, make me think that he is right....I just stumble on this article few days ago, searching for a confirmation of my experiments that contradict many advices given on most audio thread....

It is not new, on many thread people advise to upgrade gear even without having ever embed it rightfully before... 


:)
I have diffusers at first reflection points on side walls and ceilings. Definitely helps !!!
I like Toole, but let's be clear that this is his personal opinion about what he likes.  For some of us, the acoustics of live spaces can take a toll on our brain power. As others have written, filtering out a room all the time can be exhausting, including academic settings.

I personally want my room a little less present.  I like my stereo to be the acoustic equivalent of looking across a mountain range.  That feeling of relaxation you get when suddenly you feel like you can see forever, but with my ears.

How much you are taxed by the space, how much you are willing to filter out is very individualized.  I think it's funny to do the recording experiment, where you tape yourself speaking in a room, and then play it back.  In the recording you become aware of the room acoustics, and then realize that you can hear them, you've just been filtering them out.  Fun stuff.


Best,

Erik
"It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out." - Carl Sagan.

One can also apply that concept to tuning ones' listening area.  It's possible to correct Everything....but you couldn't live in it.

But your significant other will demand that you do...Now.

Erics' 'mountain range concept' has appeal; the space 'gets out of the way' of the audible 'view'.  I like that...+1, at least... ;)