A pragmatic view of cartridge expenses / many questions

Dear @pindac : "  Idler Drive for their first time are able to enjoy a TT that is off a place of 'mediocrity and average... "

I'm not refering that idler drive TT are in the mediocity/average land because exist models that are really at the top as any BD or DD TT.

Exist TT DD/BD/ID models that stay in the mediocity/average place.

Funny because I experienced in the show rooms of a high end dealer at San Diego a very well received critics by the high end audiophiles that attended to the presentation/audiotining of my Essential 3160 self (with a friend. ) designed phonolinepreamp.

@cd318 : "  Isn't this hobby supposed to be about enjoyment?  "

sure it's but things are that exist diferrent quality levels of enjoyment through room/system listen experiences.

Any true MUSIC lover can enjoy and has fun listening MUSIC through a walkman but that kind of enjoyment is different to the kind and levels of enjoyment you can have at your place and at your place what determines the true level of enjoyment is the true quality levels of your room/system.

Some audiophiles just want and like to listen music and more than that I can say to listen " sound " and that's all ( and is fine because that's what they are looking for. ) when I want to listen MUSIC as nearer to the recording and to the live MUSIC event I can achieve.

R.

@pindac,

'Interesting, One of my early ventures over a few years, when I started my earliest investigations into building my System by visiting places beyond the High Street was at the Ramada Heathrow Show.'


I've got a feeling I also went to that one, if it was the 1998 show!  I think we had to catch a special tube train to get there as there had been a problem on the underground that Saturday.

Ken Kessler gave a lecture that day and I remember being surprised by how much more erudite and learned he appeared to be than the persona he adopted in his magazine columns for Hi-Fi News and Record Review.

Yes, a lot of the pleasure in this hobby comes from the social side with some of the warmest people you could hope to meet.

Only last year at the Leamington Spa show there was a guy who had restored and rebuilt some vintage reel to reel decks. He obviously knew his stuff but it was wonderful the way he was willing to share his time and knowledge with us, who barely knew how to operate them.

And it's good to see that Ken's still going strong. From his reference system, he seems unusually fond of the London Decca cartridges.

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/international/soundstage-uk/1440-what-is-your-current-refer...

I know I was at one where EAR's TDP had brought a Working Design for a ESL57 Powered by a Lethal Voltage Direct Coupled Amp.

To do this date I remain with a very memorable positive impression, and use Elecrostatics as a result.

I was also able to Audition the Launch of the Lorricraft Garrard TT at one of these Shows,  I bought a 401 as a result, then had it overhauled by Martin Bastin and had a 125lb - 60Kg Granite Plinth Produced for it,
and adorned it with a Mounted a SME IV.
I only sold the TT and Plinth a few years ago, which was a regret, as there was a Sentiment with it.
I missed the Idler Drive and now have a replacement which is much more user friendly for the Logistics, when going on a Visit to another premises.

As said before, I support Social Events, as a extension of my enthusiasm for HiFi.
One Club Event I visit which is a 400 Mile Round Trip for me, has the meeting place in the Audition Room at the Premises of a Purveyor of 
Hi End HiFi Devices.
All attendees devices that are brought for a Debut Presentation as a New Build, Improved on Build, or a Purchased device are auditioned on the Resident HiFi System.
The day evolves into a Period where the Vinyl offerings are the main interest.
This is a Event that is called randomly so no fixed dates, it is at the Premises Owners Discretion for when his time allows for it.
There is a interest outside of the Group Members and Professionals in the HiFi Industry attend, Directors of HiFi Manufacturing Companies,
renowned Custom Builders of HiFi, Very Skilled DIY Builder HiFi Enthusiasts, and even HiFi Magazine and Internet Site Journalists.

The Attendees know a thing or two, I feel it is safe to assume.

What is off most interest, is when a DIY Enthusiast Builder brings along a Homebuilt Device that has cost them a £200ish component value and how the impression it has made is very positive and there is a disbelief that the Device can perform as it does.
As the day unfolds in ascending values, it does not take long before the weaknesses in a Budget Build are starting to be indentified as the improved Devices will be clearly out in front.

I myself have been extremely impressed by devices brought for Audition, and have desired to learn more of the Devices that have left good impressions.
I have also brought along Devices for a Audition to which I received very good feed back, one of which was a show stopper and remained in use for a quite extended period, and not the usual audition time allocation.

Member of this Group, Company Director, Custom Builders,  as well as the Premises Owner Auditioned my System at the event I exhibited at,
and in Private Conversation, informed me I was the most impressive System they had heard all day, and I had changed their pre conceived conceptions about certain devices, and they were going to investigate further.
One of those devices being a Rebuilt Cartridge.

The Rebuilt Cartridge has one other unintended Comparison that it was subjected to, especially when considering it was attached to a Tonearm that was pre prepared to show of a Rare Cartridge Design that was costing Multiple £££££'s.
The Outcome was quite unexpected and the agreement was unanimous for the Quality of the Performance Rebuilt Cartridge.

As said my Knowledge of how to Measure a Device is non existent,
I entrust that to other who are more educated and skilled.
I am pleased with how spending time with Individuals who can broaden my experience, has helped me to be selective in my chosen devices,
with my producing a System that for myself is thoroughly enjoyed,
and has been very well regarded by others, of all different backgrounds in HiFi, who have had their experience of listening to it.    



      

My personal experience for what it is worth.
- I bought my first vinyl LP - Rolling Stones 12 x 5 - when I was 9. That is 57 years ago.
- when I was 14, I built my own “serious” system: Dyna PAS and Dyna 70 kits, Lafayette speakers, Grarard table and arm, Pickering cartridge.
- I graduated to Shure, Stanton cartridges in that system.
- my mature system can be found here: theaudioatticvinylsundays.com
- Over time, I have used maybe 20 different cartridges as that system evolved.
- for 25 years, I have relied on a Koetsu. First the Black. Then a Rosewood. Then an Onyx. I still have a Benz Micro from 35 years ago.
- I do believe in the law of diminishing returns. I did believe that there is no point in paying more than $1,500 for a cartridge. After that, it’s component interaction, and it is personal preference as I believe that we all learn to hear and listen differently. This was shown in a recent demonstration by Poppy Crum (neurologic scientist at Dolby) in the YouTube video “Audio Myths”. However, after continuous listening, the Benz sounded better than what came before it, the Rosewood sounds better than the Benz, and the Onyx sounds decidedly better than the Rosewood. (I still have never spent more than $1,500 on a cartridge: I bought the Rosewood used, and the Onyx was a gift from a California environmentalist musician as a thank you).
- a friend who has won 6 Grammys for his work with Deutsche Grammophon and has done some work on my amps for me (since undone by someone else, lol) swears by the Shure ... is it the V5? It’s no longer made.
- I send them to the Netherlands for refurbishing. Koetsu is too expensive, and even though Soundsmith is a 20 minute drive from me, It is still cheaper - a lot cheaper - to send them overseas.
- I have had a specific philosophical approach to the assembly of my system over a 50 year period. It hasn’t changed, it’s just been carefully upgraded, with costs kept under control by buying used or demos.
Hope that in some way addresses your concerns.

I neglected to add that I use the Onyx for serious listening, which is 95% of my listening, the Rosewood as backup when the Onyx is being refurbished, and the Benz for parties and certain monophonic and pop LPs from the 50s and 60s.