Springs under turntable

Adding 6 Nob loose springs under the six tube phono amp brought improved clarity, musicality, vocal diction, speed and dimensional perception of instruments in the soundstage. BUT it reduced bass weight and enhanced upper mids to the point of coloration. I replaced the loose springs with 4 aluminum cones which brought things back. Bass returned but the improvements noted above faded. (The turntable is on springs.) Disappointed to lose the amazing clarity but frequency balance better. So it appears the phono prefers stability.

@lewm - yes.

RixTheTrick 09-05-2020 11:29am
Zero Stiffness is an ideal.

I have mentioned Minus K in Agon before, and I am on their email list.
They are very expensive. Their upright flexible pillars are an excellent means of controlling horizontal plane movement - a truly excellent product.

I also have reservations about seating speakers on close to zero stiffness systems. And I have many times stated that broadening the base to accommodate the instability created by spring isolation is essential on tall loudspeakers with a narrow base. I have springs under my subwoofer with absolutely no issues.

I have also suggested mass loading under turntables on top of springs as well.

I would also suggest that for loudspeakers anything over 10Hz should be isolated, and a plynth for a turntable I think if I recall correctly 4-5Hz on a mass loaded plinth.

@frogman
I’ve been stating for sometime now that what you put your isolation system on is equally as important as the design of the isolation system.
If you don’t mind, what was the VPI HW19 MK4 with springs supported by?
What was under it please?

So I had 12 springs removed from the ones under the turntable left over. And I had a bunch of 3/4" MDF disks that were cut out to make the Spring Things. So all I had to do was drill three 1/4" holes about 1/8" deep to make my own little Nobsound spring pods. 

Three springs per pod is stable and just about perfect for the Herron phono stage. There were 3 sets of BDR Cones and Round Things under it. Swapped them out and heard huge warmth, massive extreme low bass, somewhat rolled off top end. 

It was then I remembered mahgister saying how he tunes this by ear by varying the weight. Well adding springs would be equivalent and I had one more pod so in it went. Now with four pods the bass is still full but not exaggerated, the midrange still warm but more present and no longer the rolled off top end. It could probably be fine tuned even more but pretty impressive even as it is.

Good work, mahgister!

Adding 6 Nob loose springs under the six tube phono amp brought improved clarity, musicality, vocal diction, speed and dimensional perception of instruments in the soundstage. BUT it reduced bass weight and enhanced upper mids to the point of coloration.

They are not enough compressed.....

The rate of compression must be adjusted around 1%..... On any springs application if i go with my experience with mine....My speakers rightly adjusted gives me the better natural timbre i ever had but it takes me few days of listening....The first sign that all is rightly adjusted is NOT first the clarity, it is the naturalness of timbre, at first this new clarity induce me in error..... To decide we must listen to instrument like violin higher notes to hear their timbre, etchy or natural, lacking body or not.... :)

For turntable(i dont have one) mass loading the springs under the turntable, like recommended by rixthetrick, is the solution indeed....Then it is possible to adjust by varying the loading mass by ears around 1% ( + or -).


Using prings is NOT a tweak....

It is one of the essential way to embed the gear in the mechanical dimension of his working use....

"Tweak" are minor refinement or not, not always necessary..... Springs are indispensable tool to embed any gear in their vibration/resonance dimension (mechanical)....Tweak can modify or adding something that is not always wished for ( like my "sandwiches" that were a tweak wanting to be a control method but lacking the power of springs to be one)....Controls methods for the embedding DONT ADD something, rather they put the gear in the best of his conditions to reach his optimal level....Springs are essential and dont change the tone of my speakers at all if they are rightfully adjusted, rather they reveal the TRUE color of my speakers under the condition where vibrations/ resonance are controlled... Tweak are a fad + or - useful, or an attempt , a bid + or - successful, springs are necessary tool to any speakers.....

Just sayin for those who thinks lightly, or superficially ... :)

A bought bunch of tweaks will never be a method of listening experiments....

I may experiment with a couple springs under my phono or DAC but they will have their work cut out to beat the current porcelain ex ham radio 1" inverted cones under them right now.
These cost about 50 cents a pop from eBay and gave an astounding change in the level of detail and drop in noise floor.
This was documented in a thread by myself quite some time ago now.