What makes a DAC so expensive?

I have choosen my dac on the basis of the fact that his design is minimal....Not a cell phone dac but not too far i guess with internal battery to lower the noise... (suffice to inspect the internals to see the minimalistic approach)

Every electronic component in a piece of gear will add noise, it is always a trade-off...Then a minimal dac seems to me a good idea and it was retrospectively an illuminated choice....( confirmed by no negative reviews at all anywhere.)(the fact that some better dac exist at high cost is not a counter argument for sure)

That was a good choice for me....I forgot to underline that in my other posts, and this is the basic fact that guide me in my choice : minimal design then low cost and low noise....

The engineering of dac is very complex and without engineering background very difficult to understand completely....

If someone want to understand all alternatives for dac design one hour reading will not do the job...More like one month to the introduction.... :)

For myself i never wanted to immerse myself in this particular study but only to buy the cheapest and the best at the same time to solve my audio problem....My other purchases for a dac being if not atrocious not very good to my ears....

One thing i realized very rapidly is the fact that dac design is a field of audio engineering that is booming and all these cost associated to research must be paid by the customers...And all research is not always about the minimal design with optimal quality but rather the better performance in the absolute at all cost, never mind the price...Normal these dac engineers are enthralled by their research of the top high end results....

Another thing i realized, is that some old piece of technology and cheap piece, like the chip TDA 1543 at the basis for example of my dac, was always seen to be very good and exist since the beginning of this technology.... Then a minimalistic design around one of this electronic chip seems to me a bargain in money and for the given sound quality.... I was right....Like i said no come back.... I dont want today or will not want tomorrow, invest money to beat the quality of my dac with a little margin by paying many thousand of dollars....

The last discovery i made was to be crucial for me and totally underestimated; never mind the price of the dac, the resulting S.Q. of any system is more related to the rightful mechanical,electrical, and acoustical embeddings than from the design of the dac only at any price....

And what is the reviews value of different dacs comparison in a non controlled embeddings? No great value...The first dac i bought believing these reviewers was a bad choice....


I was right for dac, price and S.Q. are not linearly related at all, especially under 2000 dollars....And the booming research make obsolete swiftly the last costly hyped dac of the year....

I decide to go with minimalistic, low price,low noise,universally praised product..... I was right....

I hope my post will be useful, many people look for not only a decent dac but a very good one, at low price like me....

My best to all....

@mahgister What I'm understanding is that you propose a very involved process of "embeddings." You haven't gone into it and I'm a little timid about asking, as I don't want to be swamped... But I will bite, lightly:

Can you give me a pointer or two that would result in a relatively low cost and low time investment? Or, are you selling this service? You pop in and comment on your DAC, but when I looked it up it cost something like over $200 and I did not see an option for returns...

You said you bought yours for something like $25, or did I misread you?

I bought it in a lucky streak of bids....But if you look for one used, for about 150 dollars you can get one....
Christophe Mariac is the designer of this dac.... His price were upgrade just after i bought mine....I read a lot before buying this dac and never come back....

For my audio journey, the most rewarding part were not the upgrading of some electronic components but the work to embed what i have already.... This completely transform my audio system and my understanding of this hobby....I dont sell anything..... All my device are simple and homemade or very low cost for the springs or the Schumann generators(10 dollars each i own 10 )....


Mechanical embeddings:
If you put good isolation under your speakers and gear it is a beginning.... I just put some springs....With success....It is low cost..This embeddings can be take care of with many solutions.... I use a "sandwiches" of different materials(quartz,granite plates, sorbothane duro 70, cork plates, bamboo plates) for my amplifier and dac .... Springs under the speakers and a load to damp them(70 pounds) and to compress the springs....


electrical embeddings:
Try my "golden plates" on top of your electrical main panel.... Shungite tile+ copper tape on the external side of the application....I use them on the external electrical meter of my house, on the main touter, behind my speakers electronics, on my conditioner, all along the electrical grid.... This is relatively low cost for the cleaning all along the line.... Cost around 500 dollars....But which device at 500 dollars can lower the noise floor of the house all along the electrical grid and which you can use with this flexibility? Try a couple of these plates and if you enjoy the changes go on with more.... The loss will not be big if not....

Acoustical embeddings:

This one is the most impactful embeddings but a bit more complex to do....
I use materials essentially homemade and low cost to do a basic treatment.... I use my ears to do it for my liking...This is PASSIVE acoustic treatment.... I simply use a balance between  reflective surface, absorbant one and diffusive devices....

I also devise many ACTIVE acoustics controls but you must read my thread to have an idea and many people would call me crazy.... But it works for me and my system is more than good for me now...But all these active controls are possible in a dedicated audio room not in a living room with your wife to convince :)
I cannot describe the acoustic solutions i create for myself here....

My thread is " miracles in audio.... " here on Agon...


All my devices are simple, low cost and very efficient...

At the end with almost any good electronics you will get audiophile experience if you take care of the embeddings....

If you have questions i will give you the information if i can....

My best to you....

Chassis, parts used, build design, etc.  Most DACs are of similiar design using a circuit board, chip set, cheap resistors and capacitors.  If you are paying $3K or more for something you should know what does into it.

Happy Listening.

@ovinewar and @cal3713 

What (we) faced in here was a discussion thread I had begun that soon turned into an assault on one person's character, not so much their point-of-view, a point-of-view that wasn't asserted with any sort of bellicose tone. Maybe you could infer some head scratching or undertones of disgruntlement in the framing of the viewpoint of the person who was subsequently attacked. In fact, the attack messages went beyond attacking the person to name-calling, using words like "objectivist" in a context that blurred the line between the person that was initially attacked and my own efforts to study the workings and relevance of DACs. 

For instance, people have made a huge deal about jitter, and I noted that one business has been selling a reclocking device at great expense, from my viewpoint, at $8000 dollars. The latest Schiit DAC, the Modius, is claimed to have extremely low jitter, so what are we looking at in this apparently budget friendly DAC? It sounds like it kills off the reclock giant at this level of application. Hell, maybe the Modius would sound amazing, plugged into a $50,000.00 system. I'd like to see if someone has the guts to try it, because I think it takes serious courage to examine one's attachment to money-results, at all levels, and so it may well be that you or I were caught at a price point, unawares. Unawares that the purchased product ultimately performed much the same as something at a vastly lower price point, etc.

The response I received offered no input into my interest in studying DACs, but was fixated on the idea that the motives of my thought were tied up in impulses "chintzy." It was a lovely moment, one outside of any precedent or standard for quality service in the face-to-face world of business in a high-fidelity audio store of the kind I frequented regularly until the pandemic.

To be more clear: I've never had a salesman, reviewer, nor a fellow hobbyist accuse me of being "chintzy," and I know the person who lobbed the stone is in the business, although in this instance he has taken up a role that has nothing to do with good business practices, good service, etiquette, etc.

So, I'm on track with the question of how we relate to one another, herein. Those attempting to deal with people that make all or nothing claims are advised to keep their focus on issues, on their experience, on the reasoning, on the available data, on the knowledge base that is available for these products, their interactions, their limitations, etc.

Treating rudeness, or limited points-of-view with rudeness creates and magnifies the very problem of disagreeable moments in the forum.

The sense was that two or three people entered the space, continuing a line of attack started elsewhere, appearing oblivious to the new thread,  context, and people, myself among them. 

I am all for discussing the character of interaction that best serves useful discussion.

• Politeness is high on my list. 
  
• Civility is high on my list. 
  
• Etiquette is high on my list.
• Learning about all of this stuff is high on my list

If a person takes an approach that seems to favor one perspective In opposition to all others, this can be highlighted quite easily. It just takes a little patience, which pairs well with all of the bulleted items listed...