Jazz is not Blues and Blues is not Jazz.......

Strange.  I always thought Blues got lumped together with Rhythm, not Jazz.

Anyway, this debate is about as productive as trying to arrive at universally accepted definitions of what is yellow and what is orange.

Sure, the 12 bar blues is a classic blues form.  A form that has been used ("appropriated"????) zillions of times by jazz players, who don't have the "credentials" to be considered blues players.  So when the 12 bar blues are played by a jazz player, what is the music: blues, or jazz?  And more importantly, does it matter?

Mary Lou Williams - The Blues;


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X4r5ZioIBw

twoleftears,

Of course it doesn’t matter. That is the point. Isn’t it? It doesn’t matter. That is precisely the rebuttal to the premise of the original post. As Duke said, “there are only two kinds of music....good and bad”.

However, if opening that can of worms one must, then other issues become relevant and inescapable if trying to define it. History and influences are just two; not to mention things like musical form and other theory. That Grant Green clip had a lot more in common with the Blues than just the “form”.

Now, about “credentials”. Did guitarist Peter Green pick cotton? I kinda doubt it. I guess that means he is not a Blues player. Tell that to all his fans.

Bottom line (and re that Grant Green clip):

Classic twelve bar Blues form. Uses a Blues tonality and scales. Is inflected like the Blues......it’s a Blues.

The two have obviously diverged but they come from the same place blues being a bit more ancient. Jazz frequently plays homage to blues as in Kind of Blue. But the intent of genres has changed so much that blues in particular is hardly recognizable. Jazz is now composed of numerous mini genres some of which are hardly recognizable as music. I can always listen to John Lee But the Art Ensemble of Chicago can get a bit tedious and I have to be in the mood and alone in the house.