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16 ohm speakers: any amp sounds better with more resolution. speaker cables less critical.

First,
  
Thanks to anyone who responds with whatever answers/opinions/advice comes from this. I'm retired, covid bound, Donna is taking care of everything holiday related, too much time, always curious.
..................................

I happened across this in an old thread started by Ralph (atmasphere)

"Sixteen ohms, BTW is a very simple means for getting more resolution out of your system, as nearly every amplifier made sounds better on 16 ohms than it will on 4 or 8 ohms. Speaker cables become far less critical too."

My speakers are 16 ohms (Electrovoice horn tweeter, horn mid, 15" woofer, crossover, rheostats, from 1958).
Extremely efficient, I have more than enough power. Amp, now and in the past all had 16 ohm taps.
Of course I can hook them up to my Cayin's 8 ohm taps now and listen, but facts, opinions, advice, to learn is good.
...........................


Lots of Questions? 

1. why/how do 16 ohm speakers make amps sound better, with more resolution? 

2. why speaker cables less critical? perhaps this is why I/we don't hear cable differences in my system?
I'm using my homemade twisted pair of cat 5 now (8 individually insulated small diameter solid core).

3.  to get exterior bias control: use 8 ohm tap for my 16 ohm speakers? (get alternate amp 4/8 no 16 tap,)

lose advantage(s)? 'sounds better'; 'more resolution'; 'speaker cables less critical'? 

this says slightly more mids:

http://blog.hughes-and-kettner.com/ohm-cooking-101-understanding-amps-speakers-and-impedance/

I can fine tune my speakers via their two rheostats: 'presence' and 'brilliance', so not really an issue for me.

4. Importance of Bias Control

how important is Bias? (I don't care about heat, power output, or tube life, just as bias affects sound). Frankly, using vintage tube receiver Fisher 500C, 800C and Fisher Mono Blocks 80Z, I have never checked or adjusted bias. I just put the control in the center position when cleaning insides/controls.

I have always used 16 ohm taps of various vintage tube and SS amps and newer current tube Cayin A88T. (original version, the only one with 16 ohm taps). It's bias control is internal, versions with safer external bias do not have 16 ohm taps.

5. replace their two rheostats? ('presence' and 'brilliance': copper wire-wound on ceramic body, mid/neutral position).
I have them in neutral position now, l/r frequency response equal.   

do I need to keep rheostats 16 ohms? use 8 ohm rheostat with 16 ohm drivers?

sales sheet says 16 ohm, but data sheet shows range 1.0 to 5k ohms. 

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf

does that mean, the drivers will draw whatever they draw (varies thru frequency range anyway), doesn't matter as long as rheostat range starts 1.0 ohm, extends past say 100.0 ohms?

https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/303/controls_rheostats-1228697.pdf

...........................................


thanks, Elliott











elliottbnewcombjr
elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,304 posts
 
luisma31

everyone,

This didn’t start about sound, I am completely content with everything as is.

It was about bias controls, internal or external.

I was considering changing to a newer version of this Cayin A88T tube amp to get external bias adjustment, which my current version lacks. Those newer versions have dropped the 16 ohm taps.

Now that I have learned about the relationship of resistance to distortion, I’m sticking with this version, 16 ohm speakers to 16 ohm taps. Sticking with the internal bias controls.

Steve at VAS previously said he would adjust the bias while I waited.

https://vasnyinc.com/

He is only 1 hour away. Bill and I might go there together after the holidays.

Meanwhile, I am going to bypass the level controls, expecting no change or better.

thanks again, as always, for the shared experiences, friendly and knowledgeable advice.


mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,492 posts
 
Elliott, Lewm is correct in that you have to measure the resistance of the L pads when they are in neutral position. It may not be zero. I think it is best to do what Lewm suggested. Set them up so that they sound good to you. Then measured the resistance and substitute the appropriate resistors.
Wires that run parallel to each other have the highest inductance. In other words one wire will induce a current in the next wire. Wires across each other at 90 degrees have the lowest induction. I believe the wire in cat 5 cables is parallel.  Wires in a twisted pair are always approximating 90 degrees to each other and therefore have very low induction. IMHO the best wire made for loudspeakers is Kimber Kable. It uses smaller gauge wire woven in a pattern that keeps induction very low and because the wires are very close to each other parallel resistance is low. As Ralph relates you keep series resistance low by keeping the wires as short as possible. For 16 ohm speakers 18 gauge twisted pair is more than adequate. If you want to go ballistic buy a set of the higher gauge Kimber Kables. My amps are right under the speakers and I use 3 foot runs of Kimber Kable 12TC.
Lewm, I finally ordered my Sound Labs!! They are a custom size, basically 845s the width of 645's, a little narrower. They will fit my situation better. Roger is supposed to be giving me an ETA today or tomorrow. You mentioned that you modified the interfaces. Did you just bypass the controls?
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,756 posts
 
and used cable with plenty of conductor to do the job.
@atmasphere by plenty you mean AWG correct?
Yes. Bad editing.

@elliotnewcombjr  The level controls are there to allow you to adjust the speaker to your amplifier's voltage response. But to maintain the crossover point they should be the same value as the original.

@mijostyn If you're getting a new Sound Lab, Roger corrected for the issue to whicht @lewm was referring. So you shouldn't need to do any mods.
elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,304 posts
 

spkrplus4

thanks, 

I get voltage, current, resistance, but don't understand inductance.


Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,005 posts
 
Dear @lewm : I can't understand why you and any one else speak of 16 ohm, 8 ohm or 4 ohm speakers when the speaker impedance is not flat , it changes over its frequency range.

The measurements made it by Stereophiles confirm it and it does not matters what the speaker manufacturer specs are.

We can't choose an amplifier ( tube or SS. ) founded by the manufacturer nominal impedance spec because this spec is away from reality and all those "" bla, bla, bla " in good shape opinions on lower or higher distortions and the like has no true value. Facts are the only reality.

Any kind of audio items measurements made it by Stereophile always are really enligthing and learning lessons for many of us, at least for me that I'm not an expert as other gentlemaNS HERE.

The OP  ask something on 16 ohm speakers when does not exist in the way he was and is thinking.

If we look these measurements of 3 way different amplifiers along the speakers measurements posted we can understand the whole subject  in a better way:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-m1200-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gryphon-essence-mono-power-amplifier-measurements

https://www.stereophile.com/content/balanced-audio-technology-vk-56se-power-amplifier-measurements


All those kind of measurements needs no words, are just facts. Self explained facts.

R.







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